Joey, chasing promotion as a player and as a manager, what is more enjoyable and exciting?
I would say when you’re a player because you can control your own destiny. I would certainly much prefer if I could go on the pitch with the lads at this moment.
I don’t think anything replaces playing the game. It is the best part of the industry and you’re lucky to be able to do that.
Once you get too many grey hairs and the legs don’t go in the direction you want them to anymore, I think telling people how to do it and coming into the coaching aspect of it, we’re incredibly fortunate to have multiple careers.
I love the coaching and working with the players on a daily basis, but nothing ever replaces playing.
What more do you want from your team, Joey? What more can they give you in these crucial last seven games of the season?
I still feel we’re yet to show our best. I know we’ve been on really good since the turn of the year, more consistent in performance and more consistent in results profile, but I still feel there are a couple of gears we haven’t managed to get into.
I always felt they would come towards the business end of the season and usually the pressure and expectation bring out the best in players. I do feel the best is yet to come from our group and hopefully, it comes in the right games and moments and it sees us finish the season in a successful manner.
I get what you’re saying about going up the gears, but be specific for me, what do you want to see from your team to go through the gears? What is yet to appear?
For me, I track the team all season based on lots of metrics, some subjective, some objective. You’ve heard me talk a lot about control of games so that for me is limiting the opposition’s chances versus the chance metrics we can create.
Certainly, with all the data that is available now, it’s a lot easier to objectively track your marker points, and we’ve outperformed a lot of those due to the quality of player we have recruited, the match-winning ability of four or five that we have in the framework of the squad.
For me, it’s just about domination, and that comes into my personality. I want to win everything, I want to win the warm-up and every single aspect of the game, I want to absolutely dominate the game, starving the opposition of any form of chance creation and any form of successful ventures into your territory and the final third.
I know from previous teams that I’ve built how you can get those models working for you. Obviously, the xG data model, tracking and fitting the subjective model, which is your football intuition and what you see on the training ground on a daily basis, your personal relationships and interactions with the players.
I do feel we’re probably ahead of where I was in my first job at Fleetwood. It probably took us 18-24 months to build a promotion-chasing side after stabilising in the first year. It’s happened quicker here because we’ve managed to learn those lessons and recruit a slightly more experienced than what we’ve done previously in double the amount of time at Fleetwood.
Between now and the end of the season, and I was only talking to the guys about it this morning, if the season stops tomorrow and we looked at where we were at this junction last year, you’re thinking about there were no fans in stadiums, the club was in a league position none of us wanted and we were in a death spiral. It was the end of the cycle of that group, with CEO and director of football included in that.
When I look at where we are today, I think that is a testament to everybody at the football club, the fact we’re going into the last seven games of the season with everything to gain, everything to play for and it could be a really successful end period. Those seven games might be extended to 10 games, who knows? But certainly, we’ve got so much more positivity in and around the club and around the building.
The Gasheads are looking forward to the next period because it carries with it enormous optimism and a chance for the club to be successful.
I think as a player and as a supporter and a member of staff, you want to be coming into April and May with everything to gain.
That theme of domination, I get, but last week in isolation you had 66 per cent of possession but didn’t score. What do you need to do to get that level of possession into goals?
If you have 66 per cent of possession, most of the metrics we had on Saturday, if you have those – corners, territory, etc – more often than not, you won’t lose the game.
It will be very rare if you control the ball for a prolonged period of the game that you’ll lose it. There will be the odd occasion because it is football, the most random sport on the planet and teams can always nick a goal. Through a bad mistake or a bit of the rub of the green against you, teams can get in the ascendancy.
For us, it’s just about creating more weight of chances, more goalscoring moments and opportunities, but you have to be mindful of where we’ve come from and the level the lads have set for each other. They have set an enormous task for themselves because we’ve virtually been winning every week out of this new year and there are going to be times where you don’t get the rub of the green or maybe don’t play your best on that day and somebody makes a mistake.
For us, we have to turn those games. We’ve had them at Oldham and last time out, we’ve had one of those at Carlisle, and we’ve got to take them off the board to make sure that if we are dominant in possession and all the metrics that point toward controlling the game, if we’re not capable of winning the game because we don’t take our opportunities or someone doesn’t score a goal for us, we must make sure we definitely don’t lose those games.
That is part of this group’s progression. In this season alone, I remember the Hartlepool game when the club went a calendar year without winning an away game. The last couple of times, we were talking about not winning away from home against a team in the top seven, so this team all along is ticking off little checkpoints and little things that are good signs for a football team.
We’ve got a lot of work to do. We are aware that there are 10 teams separated, apart from Forest Green, by five or six points. They’ve all worked hard to this point in the season, they all want to get promoted, they all have an expectation in their clubs and in their stadiums from their fans, and we’ve got to make sure in this period we manage to see the job through and get the job done.
When I look at my team, I’ve got two 19-year-olds, two 20-year-olds in there. We’ve got a young group and the supporter base is coming back and getting behind the side. A couple of days ago, we had 8,000 tickets sold, so I’m hoping for a big crowd on Saturday. No doubt, Bradford will bring a few.
This is the type of occasion we want. We’re not sitting here thinking ‘Oh god, we’re getting relegated this year’ or ‘I don’t like any of these players, I don’t trust them, they don’t represent the quarters with any pride’.
We’re not talking about that. Less than 12 months later, we’re talking about ‘Could this be a group that gets us promoted? Could this be a group that takes us to Wembley? Could this be a group that we’ve got hold of for the next two, three, four-year period that has clearly excited and engaged the fanbase?
They are all really positive things out there and no matter what happens between now and the end of the season, we talk about making progress and I do feel right across the board we’ve made it.
Yeah, it will be nice to finish the season off with a bit of silverware and a promotion because ultimately that is what we wanted at the start of the year, but also as a coach you’ve got to be mindful of the progress that has been made.
As I say, there is no pressure from me with the lads because I’ve gone from a manager who was getting a little bit of stick in the early part of the season to having a great relationship and lots of times being supported by the fanbase.
It’s inevitable we’re going to be successful here now. We’ve turned the Titanic around. It was culturally dead, culturally embarrassing when I got here, and now there is a good operating procedure, but also we need to kick on and get the job done.
Antony Evans and Nick Anderton, are either likely to play on Saturday?
Both are probably going to miss Saturday. Hopefully, the week beyond that they might have a chance, but at this moment in time, they are going to miss the game.
Connor Taylor has been outstanding. He is up against one of the experienced lads of League Two, Andy Cook, at the weekend. Do you do much one-on-one with Connor on what he might come up against and the tricks of the trade and what Cook will bring that he maybe hasn’t faced yet?
Yeah, and if you remember Connor played in the game up at Bradford and had a one-on-one encounter for pretty much the whole game with Andy Cook.
Everyone knows the qualities he has at this level. He can nick you a goal, he’s very good in the air for his deceptively peculiar movement. He’s a threat and you have to deal with him.
He is a major source of inspiration in terms of them building from him and getting lots of second balls and, as I say, he carries a goal threat.
To be fair to Connor, he’s hugely relished those encounters and when he has played against somebody earlier in the year he has tended to learn those lessons.
We’ve done lots of work with the guys today in terms of what we’re likely to face and how we should deal with the attacking platforms of Bradford. That distils from a unit work assessment across the back four with the holding midfielder tapped on, but also we then drill down into the specifics and the lads will be going through the one-on-one clips with Kev Bond, usually. The small detail and bespoke preparation for likely opposing team selection.
We’re well versed in that, it will be a tough encounter, but they’ve got more threats than Andy Cook. They’re a good side with an experienced manager in there, but also in terms of budget and personnel they’ve recruited, they’re probably not doing as well as they’d hoped for in the table this season.
With Mark Hughes, you’ve got a bit of history going back a few years. Do you shake hands and just get on with life as normal, or is there still something hungover from yesteryear?
We didn’t agree with team selections etc, but he was manager and I was a player. I wouldn’t say we’re on each other’s Christmas card list, but I’ve got enormous respect for Mark.
As a player, he played for Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Manchester United, Everton and Chelsea. I have enormous respect for him as a football man and, if I’m honest with you, to see a manager who has managed for Wales and in the Premier League for multiple years to have the humility to drop down into the fourth tier, maybe to get his name back in coaching or get himself back on the horse. He gets nothing but respect from me as a football man for that.
Are we going to be civil towards each other? Yeah, I imagine so, absolutely. I’ll definitely offer my hand. Whether he shakes it or not, I couldn’t tell you on that.
But for me, it’s another manager and another team. There are no hard feelings. We didn’t see eye to eye all the time when we were together, but there are probably another hundred people I could say that about who I played with or against.
We know they will be well prepared and well drilled because he’s been an international and Premier League manager, so their preparation will be way above the level that he’s currently managing at.
To get him there, they must have given him some assurances about the summer and beyond, and the players playing under him will probably want to be at a club of Bradford’s size in the division.
It’s going to be our toughest game of the season. I think it’s going to be the most difficult game we’ve had we’re preparing in that mindset.
Last one from me, Joey. How do you get the balance right for your players to be revved right up to dominate, but keep the head clear so they don’t do anything untoward or silly because of the occasion and the atmosphere?
They’re a young group but they have learnt their lessons over the course of it. I think back to young Luca Hoole getting two yellow cards in one game, we’ve had the experienced side of that in the Northampton game at home with Glenn Whelan getting them.
We’ve, on the whole, been really good in recent weeks at keeping everything we do on a bed of discipline.
But we’re talking about wanting to dominate. For me, that is a coaching philosophy, it’s something you want to aspire to and work to and I think the benchmark has been set when you look at Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola, teams that control lots of phases of the game.
I think that won’t just be privy to me as a coach but a lot of young coaches out there and the challenge is in League One, League Two and the Championship, the teams are so closely matched and it is really difficult to do that. When you’re Klopp and Guardiola and you get between half a billion and £2billion to spend, it makes controlling games of football a helluva lot easier.
For us lads scrapping away on the free transfers and in the lower leagues, it is a lot more difficult to ask lads who are maybe not being bought for £150million and paid £160million pounds a week to control every single phase of football.
We know Saturday is going to be a really tough game. They’ve got two big, strong, powerful centre-halves in (Yann) Sango’o and Paudie O’Connor, they’ve got Cook who is an outlet and in the midst of that you’ve got Callum Cooke, who is a good footballer and was at Peterborough, you’ve got Gaz Evans, a wily old fox, Alex Gilliead in there, the boy (Elliot) Watt who sits and holds.
They’ve got lots of players who know what they’re doing at this level and as Carlisle points to last week, if we don’t get those early goals or in the ascendancy, every team in this division carries a threat.
Hi Joey, on Antony Evans, is there a bit more clarity now as to what the injury is?
He picked up an impact and it’s rumbled on into his calf. It’s still a little bit sore, but I think it’s better in the last couple of days. He hasn’t joined back in with the group and I don’t envisage him doing too much tomorrow so that probably takes him out of the reckoning for Saturday, but we’re hoping for the Tranmere game and beyond that, he and Nick will train next week and be available.
Is Nick also an impact injury?
It wasn’t an impact as such. He kicked the ball away and he felt a little tweak, similar to what Ryan Loft had when he missed that period of time.
Both lads have been scanned and had their assessments back and it is days rather than any significant period, so it is a bit frustrating for them that Saturday’s game comes a little bit too soon. But it’s days rather than weeks, they’re not going to miss that much game time.
Sorry to ask you this question every week, but is Josh Grant getting closer?
Back on the grass today. Buzzing to see Josh back out there, always brightens my day when I see him back out on the grass.
He joined back in with the lads today and got a bit of training. Good, and hopefully he comes through the session tomorrow with flying colours and he’s good to go.
He may come back into the matchday squad, depending on how he is in the next 24-48 hours. Delighted to see Josh back.
I think back to the autumn, there were quite a few milestones in your season that were really quite impactful in getting you to where you are now. Brett Pitman’s goal at Bradford certainly was one of them. That was a difficult game, you weren’t at your best but your quality came through in moments in that second half to come back and get a point.
There have been many of those, so many moments. It feels like this season has lasted forever, it really does and there have been so many moments.
Brett’s header was an incredible header at Bradford. It was a game of two halves, we were poor in the first half and we went in 1-0 down and we could have been at least two or three down and we wouldn’t have had a complaint.
We changed shape a little bit, Alfie Kilgour managed to score a good header from a corner after a good delivery from Evo. Alf got on the end of it but as quickly as we scored, we’d given another goal away.
To be fair to the lads, they really came of age in that game. Evo reminded me of Kevin De Bruyne, he really took the game by the scruff of the neck and put in an incredible ball, but it wasn’t quite on a plate. Brett still had a lot to do with that header.
We had a good away following there and those little moments, we didn’t win the game but we managed to take something out of the game and when you look back now, it was a massive point for us at the time for all manner of reasons.
Certainly, we’ve had lots of those junctions over the course of this year, and I expect going forward if we want to get better and be this winning organisation that I do envisage for us, there are going to be lots more of those moments where we’ve got to turn draws into wins.
Since the turn of the year, the lads have been outstanding with the points haul. We had a little bit of a setback and whenever we’ve had one we tend to respond to it superbly, but we’ve got the toughest game of the season on Saturday and we’ve got to respond in the right manner in front of our fans.
You built this group for moments like this, haven’t you? The big pressure, the big crowd, coming off the back of a defeat. You’ve got experience and quality in key areas of the team, wise heads who have been there and done it in these difficult times of the season when the pressure really is on, and that must fill you with confidence?
Yeah, when you’re on the run we’re on, you have to. Even in the manner of the defeat, you look at the Oldham and Carlisle defeats, there is still lots of good stuff you can take out of it. There is obviously stuff you need to work on and get better on, but there are a lot more positives, certainly when you’ve been in the hot seat as long as I have.
There were times when you’re really scrambling around to take stuff out of a game. I remember last year going into games, you’ve got everything crossed just to get a point. You couldn’t see where the next point or win was coming from.
When a team is struggling like that, it is really difficult, but now we’re riding the momentum in a different way. We’ve got that pressure of if you don’t win, you’re losing ground on the teams that are chasing promotion.
It is tightly congested up there, but I’ve spoken to you before and most managers in my position would say the same thing that they wouldn’t swap with anyone else. But I genuinely wouldn’t, I wouldn’t swap the fans we’ve got, I wouldn’t swap for the players we’ve got, I wouldn’t swap for the owner we’ve got.
We’re in a good spot. We’re looking at every game as an opportunity to get better, to stress test what we’ve got in the building and, for me, it’s a lovely space. I feel like I can experiment and learn loads about my players every day, I can learn loads about the players I’m working with every day and we’re just trying to fine-tune our skillset and our group so that we get lots more success down the pipe.
We’ve got seven regular-season games left. For me, it would be nice to go and finish the job in normal time, but if not, if we have to take 10 (games), we have to take 10.
But for us, we’re going to learn so much about our football club and the players within that in this space between now and the end of the season.
Not sure how applicable it would be to you, but the Premier League have changed their rules to five subs next season. The strength in depth of Bristol Rovers is something that has benefitted you. Is that something you would want to see next season?
I’d prefer it, but you can now make four anyway with the concussion (rules).
For me, it would make sense. You can get more people onto the pitch. The development of young players, I think it would benefit, certainly down at this level. You may get more opportunities for minutes for people.
But the problem you’re going to have is will it allow people to stockpile players because if it goes from seven to nine (on the bench), does it allow the bigger clubs to stockpile players and does it make them keep hold of players longer than they need to, which impacts their development.
That answer will vary from club to club, but for me, it would allow me to manage my squad more because I can give five sub appearances and it allows me to manage 16 players because the players who are only ever happy are the players getting on the pitch.
On the other side of it, the upsides you see for developing young players, people might see downsides in terms of bigger clubs keeping hold of younger players for longer because they can fill the bench.
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