“We wanted to frame it in a very morally gray area,” says actor Dylan Sprouse. The premise of his new movie sounds at first like a uniquely American tale of what one character refers to as a classic case of “toxic masculinity” — betrayal, anger and inevitably, guns. But the protagonists of the twisty black comedy “The Duel” don’t erupt into sudden violence; they don’t whip semiautomatics out of their glove compartments. Instead, they settle things like gentlemen — with an old-fashioned challenge and a set of antique pistols.
The premise appealed to the former “Suite Life of Zack & Cody” and "Big Daddy" star in part because of his own upbringing, sharing a household with his father and twin brother Cole. “My father's a very sensitive man,” he recalled during our “Salon Talks” interview, “and he was always good about making sure we were not being a**holes.” For him, the film (which he also executive produced) is an examination of “the idea of honor” and of conflict resolution in a world where men aren’t encouraged to talk through their differences.
In a candid and surprisingly R-rated conversation, Sprouse also opened up about why he wants to make Indiana the new Hollywood, which actor he thinks played identical twins best, and what he learned when he had to choose his own stunt butt double for his last film. “I asked a few other people,” he admits. “I was like, ‘If you're comfortable, would you help me pick a butt?’”
The following conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and length.
“The Duel” is a movie about, as the tagline says, modern problems. Tell me about the concept and this crazy idea of this film.
The movie follows two best friends who gravely wrong each other. One of them decides the only way to handle this is to challenge the other to an old-timey duel to the death, and all the problems that arise from that idea. There are some twists and turns along the way, which add to the chaos of the movie. It's a dark comedy. I made this quite a while ago now, three or four years ago, with some of my best friends in the world. We filmed this down in Indiana, and I'm very, very proud of this movie. It's the first one I've ever executive produced.
I saw the AMA that you guys did recently. You said it was also inspired by you and your co-star Callan McAuliffe. That's an interesting thing to throw out there, and I have to say it left me with a thousand questions.
None of the subject matter, I should say, thankfully.
I worked on a movie called “Banana Split” years ago. My best friend in that movie was Luke Spencer Roberts, one of the two director-writers (with Justin Matthews) of this movie. When they were writing the two leads and their characters and how their personalities match up, Luke was inspired by me and Callan. Callan is another very longtime friend of his. And then we added all the trouble into that.
You were working with friends on this production. You grew up working with family. I would imagine that can be a double-edged sword.
For me at least, I always think it's better to work with friends and family, because there's a shorthand towards taking and making creative risks too. When you know and trust people on set, everything comes easier. I know actors talk a lot about chemistry. But the backbone of good chemistry, whether you're acting angry or sad or happy or trying to make jokes, it's always made better if you're actually friends or like the people behind the scenes. Having that, not only with the cast but also the crew in this particular scenario, allowed us to stretch our wings and make choices that I'm proud to say panned out in this movie well.
A lot has changed in the time since you made this movie. We now know about the difficulties of gun safety on sets. We know what can happen, because of what happened on “Rust.” When you're doing a movie like this, are you thinking about, “How do we protect each other? How do we keep each other safe?”
It's a great point and it's very topical. We had a good armorer on set, as was required of us. We were also dealing with old flintlock pistols, though. Those are a little harder in general to misfire or mess up with. You have to be particular about muzzle-loading a flintlock and making sure the flint is in place.
Guns aren't safe really in general, but flintlocks are pretty safe for shooting, at least a movie. But that was always in the back of our minds. We shot this during COVID, so our safety precautions were pretty extreme in general. This was right during the height of COVID. We did over a thousand tests over a month and a half, and the six-feet rule and masks on set, all of the above.
Were you all quarantined together?
The four main cast were quarantined together, which ended up becoming a little bit of a frat house. I think that made the chemistry look more real.
There is a moment in the film where someone says out loud the words “toxic masculinity.” This movie dances around these ideas of how men resolve their problems. Tell me what that phrase means to you coming into this character, and what you brought with it from your own experience as a man, as a husband, as a brother.
All of us on set, even the writer-directors, have similar views on that subject matter and in our personal lives. For the movie, we wanted to frame it in a very morally gray area. We're neither [dismissing] it, we're neither pedestaling it, we're just presenting it as it is. That's been part of the fun of the screenings too. We're interested to hear groups of people arguing about what they think of the characters and the lost causes and solutions, or the exit ways they have along the way, without spoiling anything.
It's an incredibly topical thing, in general. I grew up in a family with my father and my brother. My father's a very sensitive man, though, and he was always good about making sure we were not being a**holes, pardon my French. I think it's more relevant than ever. The idea of honor is another thing that plays largely in this movie. Another subject matter, which is pretty topical too, is conflict resolution and speaking to each other. That's a line that we say, “No one talks to each other anymore.” We're presenting all of that in this movie. We're hoping to hear fan reactions and audience reactions. That's been my favorite part of all of this.
Even though this movie is a dark comedy, I have been calling it a love story about friendship, because that's what it is. To embark on a journey like dueling, you have to love your friend. You have to be pretty remorseful about what you've done.
You took a break for a couple of years to go to university. You got a degree in video game design. You are also an entrepreneur. You have been involved in mead making. You're a co-founder of a skyr business. Two questions for you. First, what are mead and skyr? And second, how did you get into the food and beverage industry?
Especially with food and bev, in general, I'm just a very strange man. I like the things that I like and I like supporting weird people. That is something that I love. All my friends are strange people too.
With mead, I started brewing when I was young, about 16. I learned that you could buy the ingredients legally, but not buy the booze legally. My friends were very happy. So I started brewing, and then I fell in love with the process of doing it. I like making things. I like cooking, I like brewing, I like figure painting. Nerdy guy.
With skyr, I was traveling through Iceland, which is one of my favorite places in the world. The buddy who was traveling with me, Unnar, was bringing me to all these skyr bars, which seemed pretty cool out there. There were these yogurt concept bars. You would see families in there. And then I met Hafthor Bjornsson, the strongest man in the world. He's like 6-foot-9, 350 pounds, and he's shoveling this stuff down to gain weight and power lift. I was like, “This is the weirdest overlap of what I'm looking at.” I've always followed my heart in concepts that are a little against the grain. But concepts have found me that tend to lean Scandinavian. I don't know why, but I like all that stuff.
We'll see what comes next. Maybe horn hats business.
I'm bringing back the helmets.
I was wracking my brain to think of another case in show business where there are identical twins who are acting, not together as a team. When it comes to you and your brother Cole, are you sometimes looking at the same scripts or going up for the same parts? Are you still in communication about the business side of it?
Definitely. It's funny, we talk to each other and be like, “Hey, did you get this?” Or, “Did you get sent that?” Or, "What are you auditioning for right now?” We'll oftentimes, we'll do the self-tapes with each other, or auditions with each other.
It was practical growing up because a child can only work so many hours on set. But, if they have the same child, you double your hours. So, we came into the business on a practical notion. Then you reach a certain age and that's not necessary at all. We haven't worked as twins in a while.
Also, there's not a lot of good twin roles in general. It's either pretty slapstick or it's very out there. Or there's a twin role that comes through, and the actor who it's being offered to decides they want to take a chance on playing two people on a green screen. I have high hopes for us working together again. But, I definitely think it's going to be something that we have hands in making. That's becoming more of a reality with all that we're doing in Indiana, and now after this executive production thing, we're looking a little more seriously into more projects.
The movie was shot in Indiana; you just did the premiere in Indiana. Tell me how you wound up there.
I'm so thankful we did. We wound up in Indiana through a producer of ours named Zach Spicer over at Pigasus Pictures. While they were finishing and finalizing a redraft for the script, my writer-directors of this project ended up during COVID camping in a tent on his land and finishing the script. By the end of their camping excursion, he told them, “OK, a few caveats: you got the money, but we're also going to need to do this in Indiana,” where he shot plenty of times with his partner Gordon Strain.
We were trying to make Indiana look like Venice Beach and Mexico at one point. I will say this, I don't think we could have made that movie anywhere else. For what we had and what we did, I'm so glad we shot in Indiana, because we just had our premiere there, not even two days ago. The amount of support and hospitality we've received from that state was unlike anything I've ever seen, truly. We had about 1,600 people show up to the premiere. We had our after-party at their beautiful museum Newfields. The support that we felt, people are so fiercely loyal and loving of their state there, that they were so excited to see what we made. That was a very exciting experience, and I want to make more there, for sure.
I'm a little embarrassed to ask you this. You had a butt double on your last movie "Beautiful Wedding," and I understand that you got to choose. Walk me through what the process is like when you're looking at butts and saying, “I'll take that one.”
How vulgar am I allowed to get? I did not know I had a butt double before going in. There have been a few really good things in the industry that have evolved over the last 10 years. I feel so old saying that. Intimacy coordinators are part of that, which is a great change in the industry. A lot of stuff that I wouldn't have presumed would be written in the contract is included. One of those things was a butt double. By the time we were getting close to shooting this scene, which was, pardon my French, an insertion shot, shot from behind, they were like, “Hey, do you want to use your butt double for this one?” I was like, “What? What are you talking about?"
They're like, “Yeah, you have a butt double.” I did not know that. They were like, “Come over here. Let's show you the list," and it's literally just shots of guys with their a**es. They're like, "Choose which one that you want." There were like 10. I was like, “I don't know.” So, I asked for help. I asked my co-star Virginia [Gardner], and I asked a few other people. I was like, "Hey, look. If you're comfortable, would you help me pick a butt? Because I don't know. I don't know what a good butt on a guy looks like”
Do you ask your wife? Do you say, “Which one looks most like mine?”
I did send it to my wife. I didn't ask which one looks like mine. I was like, “Maybe that's not what they want." And unanimously around the board, everyone chose the fattest donkey, the bubbliest butt possible. And I did not expect that. I did not see that coming. I didn't know that that was a desirable trait on a guy. I didn't know a big, round, bubble butt was a desirable trait.
So, your character's really caked up.
I am caked up in this. Now, I want to tell you the vulgar part of the story.
Oh, that's not the vulgar part?
That's not even the vulgar part. They asked me ahead of time, “You picked your butt double. How's about this? We're going to shoot this quick scene. Ten seconds of a scene. It's just a pull-in. It's supposed to be erotic, romantic. Why don't we shoot the rehearsal with the butt double first, and then if you feel comfortable, you jump in? We'll keep you in video village. It's a closed set. I say, “OK. All right. That's fine.”
I'm standing in video village and they call action. It's the butt double and it's Virginia Gardner, who is a brilliant actress. She’s lying [down in] the scene and they call action and she goes to pull in the butt double. The thing is, when you're pulling in someone you want to pull in straight, right? But, she pulled in like this (moves hands apart). Now, I swear I saw out of this man's mouth. That was the coldest air he probably ever felt in his life. I looked at my producer and I said, “I think we'll just continue using the butt double for this scene. I'm good.” So, what you see is what you get in that. It's not my butt. Sorry, guys.
I'm going to pivot like you would not believe. You've said how there aren't a lot of great roles for twins, because they usually get snapped up by some actor who wants to stretch their wings. I want to know, what is a good twin performance by a single actor that you've seen? There are a lot of them.
The last one that comes to mind is Tom Hardy. I remember my brother coming up to me — this is such a specific complaint — but he's like, “Dude, another movie where a single actor takes a job away from identical twins.” I was like, “Cole. I don't think those producers were even looking in the direction of us if they're hiring Tom Hardy. We're very different people, bro.”
You were not going to play English gangsters in the 1960s?
No. I don't think that works the same with us.
