Here is a wrap-up of the day’s key events:
Eric Trump distanced himself multiple times from the Trump Organization’s valuation work. He repeatedly claimed that he does not recall or was not involved processes surrounding statements of financial conditions.
At one point, he pointed to a former Trump Organization attorney when asked about an appraisal. “She’s the one running the process,” he said, referring to former counsel Sheri Dillon, despite emails shown in court that showed multiple exchanges he had with the appraiser in 2014.
He also responded to his deposition from earlier this year where he denied ever working on the statement of financial conditions. “I was not very familiar with my father’s financial statement,” he said in court.
Donald Trump Jr also took the stand today, continuing from his testimony yesterday. Upon being asked whether it’s a fair statement that he was generally familiar with the overall finances of the Trump Organization, he said, “I would think so, yes.”
Meanwhile, Donald Trump himself called judge Arthur Engoron a “fraudster.” In a fiery Truth Social post from earlier today, the former president accused the judge of “doing this out of his personal hatred of Trump.”
That’s it from today as we wrap up the blog. We’ll be back tomorrow. Thank you for following along.
Today’s hearing has ended.
The court will meet again tomorrow at 10am.
Eric Trump's lawyer and judge appear to get into heated exchange
The exchange began after NYAG’s prosecutor Andrew Amer redirected his questioning to whether Eric Trump was becoming aware of the NYAG’s investigation in 2021.
Clifford Robert, another one of Eric’s lawyers, accused of Amer of attempting to “sensationalize what is not really a sensation.”
Kise then joined in, saying, “I don’t know what else, other than sensationalizing is the issue. [...] Or just harassing the witness,” The Messenger’s Adam Klasfeld reports.
Chris Kise joins in:
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 2, 2023
"I don't know what else, other than sensationalizing is the issue. [...] Or just harassing the witness."
Kise then referred to judge Arthur Engoron’s principal law clerk which infuriated Engoron.
“Do not refer to my staff again,” Klasfeld reports Engoron saying.
In response, Kise said, “She’s a civil servant,” to which Engoron replied, “Sometimes I think there’s a bit of misogyny in you referring to my female principal law clerk.”
Engoron tears into Kise, after he refers to the clerk:
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 2, 2023
"Do not refer to my staff again." [...]
"She's a civil servant."
"Sometimes I think there's a bit of misogyny in you referring to my female principal law clerk."
Kise then defended himself, saying, “I’m not a misogynist…I have a 17-year old daughter.”
After a heated exchange, Engoron said, “Guess it’s time to go.” He added that he’ll see everyone at 10am tomorrow.
Updated
To get a sense of the back-and-forth that’s been happening in the courtroom between Eric Trump and prosecutor Andrew Amer, Amer just pulled up an email from former Trump Organization lawyer Sheri Dillon where she says that she spoke to Eric Trump about the Seven Springs appraisal.
“I spoke to Eric and he is aware that the more supportable value at this point is around $45m,” Dillon wrote in an email to the appraiser, who was eventually dropped by the company. Ultimately, the company valued the estate at $58m higher in their 2013 and 2018 financial statements.
“I really hadn’t been involved in the appraisal of the property,” Trump said, growing frustrated. “You pointed out four interactions… I don’t recall McArdle [the appraiser] at all. I don’t think I was the main person involved.”
“I don’t focus on appraisals, that’s not the focus of my day,” Trump followed up, speaking quickly, saying that he was focused on construction and physical development of properties.
Eric Trump was questioned about the appraisal surrounding 71 residential units at the Trump National Golf Club in Westchester, New York.
Below is an email sent from David McArdle, an appraiser from real estate firm Cushman & Wakefield, The Messenger’s Adam Klasfeld reports.
We're back.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 2, 2023
Eric Trump is being questioned about the appraisal of the 71 units at the Trump National Golf Club, in Westchester, New York.
Seen here: His email exchange with Cushman appraiser David McArdle, who testified earlier. pic.twitter.com/9c1kBvqTu3
Here is another email shown to Eric in which McArdle writes:
“This is a follow-up to confirm that you will be providing support from your brokers for the potential pricing of the 71 residential units… At this time we are moving forward with the discounted cash flow analysis and look forward to the pricing and cost estimates from you team.”
Eric Trump is shown another email about his worth with McArdle on that project.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 2, 2023
"This is a follow-up to confirm that you will be providing support from your brokers for the potential pricing of the 71 residential units." pic.twitter.com/cG0IKZhIKV
The court is back from break.
“Right on time, I like to run a tight ship,” said judge Arthur Engoron.
Back from a break.
— Stewart Bishop (@stewartbishop) November 2, 2023
“Right on time, I like to run a tight ship,” Justice Engoron says.
The court is currently on a break, the Guardian’s Lauren Aratani reports.
Eric points to Trump Organization attorney when asked about an appraisal
NYAG Andrew Amer focused on an appraisal for the Trump Organization by real estate firm Cushman & Wakefield for a conservation easement, or a type of tax break.
Eric Trump said he has no recollection of the appraisal, though emails shown in court show multiple meetings and emails that he had with the appraiser at the time in 2014. Trump said that the appraisal was largely handled former Trump Organization attorney Sheri Dillon.
When asked whether he recalls a decision to terminate the engagement with the appraiser, Trump said he had little recollection about it.
“Presumably [Dillon] was closer to this,” Trump said. “She’s the one running the process.”
Updated
Eric Trump was also questioned about his father’s Seven Springs estate in Westchester, New York and the notion of getting a conservation easement, Law360’s Stewart Bishop reports.
Changing topics, we return to the notion of getting a conservation easement for the Seven Springs estate. The Trump’s engaged real estate firm Cushman & Wakefield to do an appraisal in connection with it.
— Stewart Bishop (@stewartbishop) November 2, 2023
The Trumps sought real estate firm Cushman and Wakefield to do an appraisal. According to the NYAG’s office, Eric was “deeply involved in this process.”
"Eric Trump was deeply involved in this process, taking the lead on the Seven Springs property within his family and the Trump [Org]. At various times from 2011 to 2016, Eric Trump spent time living at the property and repeatedly met with town officials," the AG's office says.
— Stewart Bishop (@stewartbishop) November 2, 2023
NYAG prosecutor Andrew Amer asked about mid-2014 during which Eric spoke to someone from Cushman & Wakefield regarding the appraisal process, Bishop reports.
Eric agreed that the conversation took place. Bishop adds that Amer sounded “a bit annoyed” whenever Eric does not deliver a “yes” or “no” answer to his questions.
Amer then asked if Eric recalls whether the appraisal was preliminary to which Eric responded that he would have to ask Sherri Dillon, the Trump Organization’s former outside counsel on the process.
He said she was “much closer to the process.” In response, Amer said, “There’s a lot of people I could ask.”
He then asked Eric again. Eric maintains that he does not recall, Bishop reports.
Eric says he doesn't recall.
— Stewart Bishop (@stewartbishop) November 2, 2023
Eric responds to deposition from earlier this year
We’re back from lunch break, and Eric Trump just responded to a series of videos that were played back for him from his deposition earlier this year where he denied ever working on the statement of financial conditions at the center of the case.
“This is not something I ever recall seeing or working on and really only came to my attention” because of this case, Trump said in a deposition, echoing testimony from earlier in the day.
NYAG prosecutor Andrew Amer asked Trump if after reviewing email between Jeff McConney, if he will “concede that you were very familiar” with the financial statements. “No, I was not very familiar with my father’s financial statement,” he responded.
Trump has been maintaining that despite emails showing that he was explicitly consulted on for these financial statements that he did not know about them. “People have conversations with me all the time that I can give them answers,” he said. “The statement of financial condition stopped at Allen Weisselberg [former Trump Organization chief financial officer]. This was an accounting function.”
This kind of back and forth has been going on the whole day. At times, Eric Trump has appeared visibly annoyed at the repeated questions. At one point, Amer told Trump not to make any “speeches” from the stand and to answer his questions with “yes” or “no.”
“Your lawyers have the opportunity to question you,” Amer noted, referencing cross examination. Trump’s lawyer declined to cross examine his brother Donald Trump Jr, so it is unclear whether there will be any cross examination of Eric Trump at all.
Updated
Eric Trump tells court he is 'getting tripped up' and did not register questions were about statements of financial condition
Eric Trump has returned back to the stand and “his temper is flaring,” MSNBC’s legal analyst Lisa Rubin reports.
Eric Trump is back on the stand at the New York Attorney General’s civil fraud trial, and his temper is flaring, saying where he thinks “we’re getting tripped up” is that he did not register that the questions McConney was asking were for statements of financial condition.
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 2, 2023
Rubin also reports that Eric was shown a July 2013 email exchange between him and Allen Weisselberg, chief financial officer of the Trump Organization. The email surrounded Donald Trump’s Las Vegas project.
Weisselberg informed Eric that in order to secure a line of credit, his father’s financial statement was required. Eric replied they would not require a line of credit and “emphasizes this now,” Rubin reports.
Upon being asked whether he read it, Eric acknowledged he did and “that by reading it, he would have understood that the Trump Org. was contemplating giving a bank Trump’s statement of financial condition,” Rubin adds.
“You read it, right?” Eric acknowledges he did and that by reading it, he would have understood that the Trump Org. was contemplating giving a bank Trump’s statement of financial condition.
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 2, 2023
Updated
Eric Trump testimony continues
Eric Trump is now back on the stand following a lunch break.
He will continue testifying his knowledge of the Trump Organization’s valuations.
Updated
Here is the Guardian’s Lauren Aratani and Dominic Rushe’s latest report on today’s hearing:
Donald Trump’s two eldest sons took the stand on Thursday in the family firm’s $250m fraud trial and claimed that they relied on accountants and others to make sure their financial records were correct.
Lawyers for the New York attorney general quizzed the brothers about their knowledge of the financial statements that prosecutors argue prove that the Trumps were instrumental in a scheme to inflate the family’s perceived wealth for financial gain.
“Again, for purposes of accounting, I relied upon the accountants,” Donald Trump Jr, the former president’s eldest son, told the court.
“I never had anything to do with the statements of financial condition,” Eric Trump, Donald Jr’s younger brother, testified.
For the full story, click here:
Trump calls judge 'fraudster' in fiery Truth Social post
Donald Trump has lashed out at the judge overseeing the ongoing civil fraud case.
In a fiery post on Truth Social, Trump called Arthur Engoron “the fraudster, not me.”
He added:
“He is just doing this out of his personal ‘Hatred of TRUMP,’ his love of the publicity that this case is getting him, & his lack of respect for the Appeals Court (He is in total violation of their order ending much of this Witch Hunt right now. He refuses to do what they say he must!).”
“Engoron is a wacko who is having a great time endlessly sanctioning, fining, & pushing around ‘TRUMP,’ hurting my very good children, & working to damage & defame me for purposes of Interfering with the 2024 Presidential Election, all this while never admonishing our failed & corrupt Attorney General, whose “Star Witness” admitted he lied, & that I did NOT tell him to inflate values, a total reversal. Their whole case was based on this single LOSER, so it should be dismissed!”
Updated
Here are some images from the newswires of Eric Trump before and during the hearing:
The court is currently on lunch break.
We will continue to bring you the latest updates once it resumes. In the meantime, here are more details from Eric Trump’s hearing that just took place.
As Eric Trump continued to deny knowledge of the Trump Organization’s statements of financial conditions, NYAG prosecutor Andrew Amer pulled up emails from 2012 & 2013 that suggest he would have know about financial statements, the Guardian’s Lauren Aratani reports.
In August 2013, he received an email from Jeff McConney, former controller, that began with “Hi Eric, I’m working on your dad’s financial statement...” and McConney references in the spreadsheet with support data for the financial statement a phone call with Eric Trump from this day.
Clifford Robert, Eric and Donald Tump Jr’s lawyers, kept objecting for statute of limitation and Eric Trump twice mentioned he was 26 at the time. Eric Trump also kind of just erupted at being asked whether he knew about the statements of financial concerns.
“We’re a major organization…a massive organization. I’m certainly aware that we have financial statements, absolutely,” he said.
As part of the deal to acquire the North Carolina golf club, a club representative went to New York to review Donald Trump’s financials, Law360’s Stewart Bishop reports.
He adds that the Trumps required the representative to sign an NDA.
NYAG’s prosecutor Andrew Amer asked Eric Trump, “You were concerned about him distributing the financial [information] to club members?” Bishop reports.
“Possibly, yes,” Eric Trump replied, adding, “I just didn’t want [that] information distributed to 1,200 people, no matter who they were.” He also said he never reviewed his father’s statements of financial condition.
“It’s just not what I do at the company,” Eric Trump said.
“I just didn’t want [that] information distributed to 1200 people, no matter who they were,” Eric says.
— Stewart Bishop (@stewartbishop) November 2, 2023
Eric says he never reviewed his father’s statements of financial condition.
“It’s just not what I do at the company,” he says.
He added: “I understood we had financials at the company and we had an accounting department...that would work with outside entities on things like this… I did not work on the statements of financial condition.”
“I understood we had financials at the company and we had an accounting department...that would work with outside entities on things like this,” Eric says.
— Stewart Bishop (@stewartbishop) November 2, 2023
"I did not work on the statements of financial condition,” he says.
Eric says he doesn't recall involvement in 2012 NC golf club purchase offer
Andrew Amer, prosecutor for the New York attorney general, asked Eric Trump about the Point Lake & Golf Club in North Carolina which Donald Trump made an offer to purchase in 2012, MSNBC’s Lisa Rubin reports.
She adds that a club board member shared with Eric Trump a letter sent to other club members the day before about the potential purchase.
Amer moves on to discuss Trump’s Charlotte, NC golf club, which was acquired in 2012. A board member of that club shared with Eric in Jan. 2012 a letter sent to club members on the prior day about the potential purchase of that club by the Trump Org.
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 2, 2023
Eric Trump recalled that club members had to vote to approve the sale. Rubin also reports that the letter stated, “Trump drafted a few and approved all statements related to that offer.”
She adds:
“Eric remembers being a key negotiator of that deal but does not recall whether he was involved in drafting or reviewing the statements made as part of the offer. He says, ‘It would depend on the statements.’”
Eric remembers being a key negotiator of that deal but does not recall whether he was involved in drafting or reviewing the statements made as part of the offer. He says, “It would depend on the statements.”
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 2, 2023
Updated
'I don't recall', Eric says in response to questions about valuation work
Prosecutors pulled up a 2013 statement of financial condition data spreadsheet where Trump Organization executive Jeff McConney said that he used a valuation based off a telephone call with Eric Trump, the Guardian’s Lauren Aratani reports.
When asked if he remembered that phone call referenced, Eric Trump said he did not.
“I don’t believe I ever saw or worked on the statement of financial condition. I don’t believe I had any knowledge of it,” he said, adding, “I think I was 26 year old, I don’t recall - I was not aware of it, I never worked on it, and I didn’t know about it until this case came into fruition.”
Updated
With Eric Trump taking the stand, here is video from his earlier testimony in March during which he said he was not involved in appraisal work.
“I pour concrete. I operate properties. I don’t focus on appraisals,” he said.
He also denied signing statements of financial conditions during his testimony.
Eric Trump takes the stand
Eric Trump has just taken the stand, the Guardian’s Lauren Aratani reports.
Donald Trump Jr is done taking the stand, the Guardian’s Lauren Aratani reports.
The court is currently on break as Eric Trump prepares to testify next.
Trump Jr says 'I would think so' when asked about familiarity with Trump Org finances
Prosecutor Colleen Faherty asked Donald Trump Jr whether it’s a fair statement that he was generally familiar with the overall finances of the Trump Organization between 2011 and the present.
“I would think so, yes,” Trump Jr replied, Law360’s Stewart Bishop reports.
Faherty asks if it’s a fair statement that between 2011 and the present, he was generally familiar with the overall finances of the Trump Org.
— Stewart Bishop (@stewartbishop) November 2, 2023
“I would think so, yes,” Don Jr.
Updated
Donald Trump Jr is shown a certification he signed on October 31, 2017 to Deutsche Bank, Adam Klasfeld from the The Messenger reports, adding that it attached a statement of financial condition.
In response to a question on Trump Jr signing the certification intending that the bank would rely on it, Trump Jr said that he would be fine with it, Klasfeld reports.
Don Jr. is shown another certification to Deutsche Bank that he signed on Oct. 31, 2017.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 2, 2023
It also attached a statement of financial condition.
Q: You signed the certification intending that the bank would rely on it.
A: I would be fine with them relying on it.
Upon being repeatedly asked the question, Trump Jr said, “It’s not as simple as ‘yes or no.’”
He then added that he assumed that banks would perform their own due diligence, Klasfeld reports.
Don Jr. said that he assumed banks would perform their own due diligence.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 2, 2023
Here is the lengthy email inquiry from then Forbes reporter Noah Kirsch that was sent to Trump Organization’s chief legal officer Alan Garten in March 2017.
The email included dozens of questions surrounding various topics including the Trump Organization, the Trump Tower penthouse, as well as the Trump Organization’s business dealing in various countries including the Dominican Republica, Brazil, Mexico, Canada and Panama.
Indeed, the Forbes press inquiry that evoked that response from Don Jr. was... detailed. pic.twitter.com/r84079fHd5
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 2, 2023
Trump Jr says he deferred finances to accounting firm
Prosecutor Colleen Faherty started off the day by showing a series of documents to Donald Trump Jr, including an email that a Forbes fact-checking sent to the Trump Organization that was eventually forwarded to Trump Jr.
In the email, Forbes pointed out that the Trump Organization had told the magazine that Trump’s triplex apartment in Trump Tower was around 33,000 sq ft, but Forbes cited documents that showed the apartment was actually just under 11,000 sq ft.
“Insane amount of stuff there in regards to the Forbes inquiry,” Trump Jr wrote to other Trump Organization executives in response to the inquiry.
Faherty then pulled up a letter the Trump Organization sent to their accounting firm, Mazars USA, who was compiling the 2016 statement of financial condition.
In the letter, the Trump Organization had affirmed their responsibility of “fair presentation” in accordance to generally accepted account principles, or GAAP. Trump Jr repeated his assertion that he relied on Mazars to provide them the information and that the accounting firm was “intimately involved” with the preparation of the statement.
Updated
Donald Trump Jr takes stand for second day of testimony
Donald Trump Jr has taken the stand.
MSNBC’s legal analyst Lisa Rubin reports that Trump was shown an email dating back to 2017 from a Forbes reporter to Trump Organization’s chief legal officer Alan Garten about a “fact checking inquiry,” including questions about the purported 33K square feet Trump Tower penthouse.
Now Colleen Faherty is showing Jr. a new document, a 3/1/17 email from a Noah Kirsch from Forbes to Alan Garten with a “fact checking inquiry” that includes multiple questions about the Trump Tower penthouse, which Trump had represented to Forbes consisted of 33k sq ft.
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 2, 2023
(Herein lies the trap. Trump not only received the inquiry, but the statement of financial condition as of 6/30/16, which was finalized 9 days later and for which he was responsible as the trustee, includes a valuation of the apartment still based on that 33k sq ft.)
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 2, 2023
Trump Jr said that he has “no specific recollection” of following up on the inquiry, reports Rubin. She adds that he characterized the email as containing an “insane amount” of stuff.
Trump Jr. says he has “no specific recollection” of following up on Forbes’ inquiry, which in an email he characterized as containing an “insane amount” of stuff.
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 2, 2023
Updated
Here are some images coming through the newswires of the Manhattan courthouse where Donald Trump Jr and his brother Eric have arrived, as well as New York attorney general Letitia James:
As much of a draw Donald Trump Jr being on the witness stand may seem, I’m inside the courthouse this morning, and the media presence – like yesterday – is much thinner than on days when Donald Trump shows up to court himself. Instead, the long lines of people waiting to get in are people who were called for jury duty. Ultimately, it’s the former president who seems to be what attracts all the cameras.
And that’s no surprise. Trump Jr taking the stand yesterday was his first appearance in court. As much as he enjoys mimicking his father in making incendiary political statements, he has not been making much of a show outside of the courtroom.
Even inside of it, Trump Jr has shown little of the hostility his father has shown in front of the judge. Trump Jr has been amiable on the stand so far, though he talks quickly and has claimed to not recall much when asked specific, potentially incriminating questions.
But much of his testimony so far has been slowly establishing the role that he played within the Trump Organization, serving as a trustee on his father’s trust and playing a key role in making licensing deals overseas. Prosecutors today will likely hone in on trying to get Trump Jr to respond to financial documents at the center of the case, though it is unclear how cooperative Trump Jr will be.
It appears Trump Sr won’t be showing up to court again today, even as his eldest son continues to take the witness stand and his second son, Eric Trump, is expected to follow him right after. The former president is scheduled to testify on Monday.
Updated
Donald Trump Jr and brother Eric arrive at Manhattan courthouse
Donald Trump Jr and his brother Eric are already at the Manhattan courthouse where both are expected to take the stand today, MSNBC legal analyst Lisa Rubin reports.
NEW: Good morning from the New York civil fraud trial against Donald Trump, where Don Jr. and Eric just breezed by me in the security line. The trial day starts at 10 am again. I’ll be here & on @msnbc all day.
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 2, 2023
Updated
Following yesterday’s hearing, New York’s attorney general Letitia James released a video in which she recapped the hearing.
“Today, we heard testimony from an expert witness who specializes in finance, banking and large-scale transactions. He reviewed and analyzed some of the loans that the Trump Organization was able to obtain by using Donald Trump’s fraudulent statements of financial condition,” James said.
“By lying about his net worth, Donald Trump and the Trump Organization were able to get these loans for much better terms than they should have…
We then began our questioning of Donald Trump Jr who claimed to have very little understanding of the accounting and legal mechanics of the family business. But we know he’s been involved in running the Trump Organization for a long time,” she added.
Donald Trump lied about his net worth on his statements of financial condition to get loans for much better terms than he should have.
— NY AG James (@NewYorkStateAG) November 1, 2023
It's that simple. pic.twitter.com/dYNhsxzxNa
Donald Trump Jr testimony set to continue as Eric also expected to appear
Donald Trump Jr is set to return to the witness stand today as a defendant listed in his father’s $250 million civil fraud case.
The case is brought forth by New York attorney general Letitia James. James is accusing Donald Trump and several top executives - including his eldest sons – from the Trump Organization of fraudulently inflating the value of the former president’s properties to secure better loans from banks.
In addition to Donald Trump Jr, Eric Trump has been named as a defendant and is set to make an appearance today.
During yesterday’s hearing, Trump Jr downplayed his involvement in the Trump Organization’s financial statements.
In response to multiple questions about the roles that he, his father, and Trump’s former chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg had as trustess of the Donald J Trump Revocable Trust, Trump. Jr replied, “I don’t recall.”
Following yesterday’s hearing, James released a video saying, “We know [Donald Trump Jr] has been involved in running the Trump Organization for a long time. Tomorrow, we’ll finish our questioning of Donald Trump Jr and will hear from his brother Eric Trump. And we will continue to show their involvement in the family’s fraudulent business practices.”
Stay tuned as we bring you the latest updates.
Updated
