Jo Whiley has spoken openly about many difficult topics, including her reluctance to take HRT and why she later changed her mind, to the heartbreaking challenge of caring for elderly relatives while juggling the rest of life's chaos.
During the excellent Dig It podcast the presenter hosts with Zoe Ball, nothing is left off the table when it comes to discussing current affairs, and issues affecting midlife women.
During a recent episode, the duo discussed something many women of a certain age might relate to: having an empty nest. However, while for many this signals a time of sadness and grief, Jo's take on it is entirely refreshing.
The presenter's daughter, India, had been living with Jo, but has recently moved out. "They are very active people with bikes and loads of cookery and camera equipment," she explains of the extra clutter India and her boyfriend brought to the home.
"I was worried how I'd be, obviously I miss them being around," Jo says now India and her boyfriend have gone, but there's been a surprising upside to a quieter house, as Jo explains it feels like "a big reset."
"I've had some new carpets fitted," she says, delightedly, adding that by emptying rooms to have the new carpets, she's been able to see them in an entirely new light and get a fresh perspective on what the rooms could look like without the jumble that comes with children.
"I find it quite calming for myself when everything is in its place, I feel much better inside - I have more clarity, I feel calmer, it's been a good week," she says.
Zoe also gave her take on having an empty house. "As parents, we have that [empty nest feeling], then the kids come back, then they stay for ages and eat you out of house and home," she says.
She adds that just when you start to love having them at home once more, "they go again," and the process can start all over again.
Zoe also has a positive approach to having no children living in the house. "You can re-claim your space, have some calm - the lovely smell of new carpets, I love that smell," she says while alluding to both the benefits of a quiet living environment, and Jo being able to fit new carpets now her nest is emptying.
"You seem like you have an air of calm about you," Zoe tells her friend, adding, "you're dressed as though you have an air of calm about you," as Jo indicates her white, casual outfit.
Saying goodbye to her daughter wasn't entirely without tears for Jo, but she recognised those feelings and then moved forwards.
"Last week there was a lot of emotional turmoil and I was just trying to contain everything, but I feel like I've faced up to it - I've been emotional," she shares.
Her feelings have been helped by being excited her daughter has found a place of her own. "I'm so happy for them," she says, adding, "they've been sending me photos of their floors being sanded, and I can remember how exciting it is."
Jo concludes by saying positively, "It's that whole thing of having a new house and new life, and now I've got my house and my new life. I think I was a bit scared, but it's OK."
Her closing message for others going through the same thing is, "The anticipation is so much worse than the reality, it always is."
