Leon, 42, Oxford
Occupation Coordinator at a food charity
Voting record Labour “when they have a genuine leftwing candidate, otherwise I register a protest vote”. Not a fan of Keir Starmer
Amuse bouche Leon was once called up on stage at a Derren Brown performance. “He ‘read my mind’ – but I worked out how he did it”
John, 69, Oxford
Occupation Retired IT director for the NHS. Now a consultant
Voting record Always Labour, “apart from when we went to war in Iraq”. Also not a big fan of Starmer
Amuse bouche John was once on the front of the Daily Mail. When the paper printed a picture of the Liberal Democrat politician Chris Huhne as a student on a demo, a long-haired John was beside him
For starters
Leon The place was really nice. I had dal and rice and some interesting side dishes like a coconut sambol. We had a conversation about toxicity in politics and social media. I made the point that it’s the angry “anti” voices on any issue that tend to register online; he said it’s the antis and the passionately pros.
John I had lamb meatballs, curried prawns, flatbread, a glass of wine. It was really good. We talked about our lived experience, our jobs. I told him about my children, but we mainly focused on low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs).
Leon It was a nice surprise to find we were both lefties and shared some broader worries. I think there are two quite different kinds of people in Oxford who are anti-LTNs: the people who have been inconvenienced by them, and the people from outside who are trying to create a narrative of authoritarian control – they’ve co-opted it into their culture war.
John We aren’t all anti-vax conspiracy-theorist weirdos in the area I live. It’s people who think independently, who think it was undemocratic and are worried about getting to hospital.
The big beef
John I live in a road that has been blocked off at one end. It does cause disruption – it’s more difficult to park. I don’t use the car an enormous amount, but I’m fighting it because I think LTNs are unfair and wrong. LTNs are not green – they create longer journeys for most people, they create pollution and they move traffic from the rich areas to the poor areas.
Leon Most things he said were anecdotal – “I’ve talked to people and they’re telling me this” – whereas I was trying to present stats. There was an independent study at one school showing that 90 children are no longer coming by car. Pollution is drastically reduced, plus there’s the safety aspect.
John If you’re not a laptop warrior working at home and you do a real job where you have to care for people or paint houses, this scheme doesn’t work. The people pushing these schemes are generally white middle class; the people on the receiving end generally aren’t. It particularly affects the Asian population, who often take elderly relatives to the mosque.
Leon I empathise, but I’m going for the biggest number of people benefiting. He wouldn’t accept the pollution argument. The only way to change driver behaviour is to take away roads.
Sharing plate
Leon We agreed that public transport is crucial to cut down on car journeys and to improve the environment, and about the cost of living crisis, and not being particularly happy with Labour.
John On LTNs, we agreed that the council had done it poorly – that the communication wasn’t good, that we needed fewer slogans and more talking.
For afters
John The idea of the 15-minute city is that all essential facilities should be within a 15-minute walk of your home. I’m sceptical of the viability in the UK. It’s not like Holland, with the planning structure. Oxford is a really old city.
Leon I see his point. So it might mean we won’t end up with the ideal solution. Will it be a 20-minute or a 25-minute city? With improved walkability and cyclability, that’s still a better outcome.
Takeaways
Leon I went with the intention that I didn’t want to have an argument. I was there to have a respectful conversation and listen. He agreed, and I think we succeeded. It was refreshing.
John Talking is better than not talking, even if you don’t agree. He listened, but I don’t think he heard. I’m not sure I would necessarily have Leon as a bosom pal in the future.
Leon We shook hands, it felt like on good terms. We didn’t swap numbers.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• John and Leon ate at the Coconut Tree in Oxford
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