Duncan, 56, Sedgefield
Occupation Wealth manager
Voting record Can’t think of an election in which he hasn’t voted Conservative
Amuse bouche Has quite a substantial burgundy collection, including a bottle of Domaine de la Romanée-Conti La Tâche. For him to justify drinking it, the world would have to be coming to an end
Jane, 37, London
Occupation Worked in finance before becoming an abstract artist in 2020
Voting record Has no record, as she left her home country before she hit voting age and is unable to do so here
Amuse bouche Did a 250k race in the Sahara, having gone from being a non- runner to ultra-marathons in 10 months
For starters
Duncan I’m a nervous man; she seemed incredibly confident. I think she came prepared for conflict, if it was required. You could feel the steeliness.
Jane He was genuinely a nice bloke, but it became clear that we based our reality on very different things.
Duncan Jane is of Chinese extraction, and spent a lot of time in Singapore, so I let her order. She got little bits of pork, which were fine. I was happy to be led, I’m a blank canvas. I think she was trying to be kind by avoiding spicy stuff. She got me eating duck and udon noodles.
Jane Then we had some vegan dishes, marinated mushrooms with unique Japanese herbal seasoning. We talked a bit about that, he was curious.
The big beef
Duncan Our biggest disagreement was whether people coming over in small boats are criminals. If you look at the pictures, there’s a boat with 60 to 70 immigrants coming in, all young men in their teens and 20s. Jane clearly has no understanding of petty criminals. I’ve got a better understanding. Her attitude is, “They can’t be criminals, because if they were, they’d get into the country easily.”
Jane He felt that the Rwanda plan was justified, whereas I felt strongly that it was reprehensible and inhumane. So that was something we just couldn’t bridge. In his view, the Aussies had done it not so long ago and it was fine. I think he was referring to the Pacific Solution. My argument was that it wasn’t like-for-like: you’re shipping some people who have no connection to the continent, putting them in a completely alien world.
Duncan What I was trying to get over was, it doesn’t actually matter: the country has voted so many times for that [immigration] to stop, and it’s still happening. People are going to say, “You’re not listening to us” and the next thing we’re going to vote to get out of is the European court of human rights.
Jane I shared some statistics with him, and he actually said, “You’re relying too much on the statistics.” I think he had a fair point that when people are angry and hurt, reason and statistics won’t appeal to them. But I got the sense he was doing just fine, so I was surprised when he said, “Statistics don’t matter.”
Sharing plate
Duncan Most loopholes for personal taxation have been closed. The real problem we have, despite all the woke gibberish that Starbucks, Amazon, whatever companies, say, wittering on, they [hardly] pay any tax in this country. They rip the profitability out of M&S and Mr and Mrs Littlewoods.
Jane We were both angry that corporations get away with so much. And he made a fairly decent point: as a high taxpayer, he didn’t feel obliged to pay lots more when corporations are getting away with so much.
For afters
Duncan The NHS doesn’t work, and it doesn’t have a plan to make it work. I think she’d agree. I wouldn’t say money isn’t part of the problem, but you wouldn’t throw good money after bad.
Jane We agreed we needed to have a proper study of successful countries. I said, “These countries with better outcomes are paying 50% to 74% more per capita on health – of course they have better healthcare.” And he came back with, “I know a doctor with £3m in their pension.” He was much keener on anecdote than data.
Takeaways
Duncan She was a very nice lady, but she loved throwing stats. She falls into exactly the same traps as the rest of the metropolitan side of this country, that it’s all about numbers. But people are not about numbers.
Jane We couldn’t get too far in because he didn’t want to hear any figures. The biggest thing that struck me, and he said this in very clear terms: nothing will ever change, no matter who is in charge. My fear is that he might be right, in our populist-driven political landscape. But it is just not a good attitude to have in a country that needs to turn itself around.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Jane and Duncan ate at Koya City, London EC4
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