Andy, 38, Honiton
Occupation Charity fundraising director
Voting record Andy’s a Labour member but ends up voting for the Lib Dems, while being lukewarm about them
Amuse bouche Runs a small app that makes film recommendations – you describe your mood and, based on what films you already like, it makes suggestions
Steve, 70, Sidbury, Devon
Occupation Retired
Voting record Always Labour, unless he votes tactically. Labour’s got not a cat in hell’s chance in his constituency, so he did vote Lib Dem last time
Amuse bouche Steve might be the oldest player in his local cricket league. Seeing the youngsters leap about the field and dive for the ball – those days are past for him, but it’s great fun
For starters
Andy A super friendly guy, it was lovely to meet him.
Steve Very friendly, we got on really well.
Andy I had spicy Korean chicken to start, then a steak kebab thing which came on a very elaborate contraption.
Steve I had calamari, then went on to salmon, with crispy kale and a sort of creamy prosecco sauce.
The big beef
Andy Probably the biggest point of friction was about U-turns. He thinks changing your mind as a leader isn’t a bad thing, which I think isn’t untrue, but if you can’t go a week without changing your mind, it makes you look as though you’re wrong about most things. We talked about the winter fuel allowance, the inheritance tax on farmers. If you change your mind because something is unpopular, it’s a sign you haven’t got any backbone.
Steve We saw each other’s viewpoint, I’m hoping I made some pertinent points. The ultimate difference between us was that Andy was adamant Reform are going to win the next election. I couldn’t get myself to accept that. Not because I don’t think it’s possible, just because I don’t like it. He thinks the bottom line is that Starmer is a bad politician. He would have been perfectly good as a minister in Tony Blair’s government, but as the leader of a party, he always seems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Andy It’s curious because I’m a Labour member, unlike Steve – although he’s a lifelong Labour voter. We both want the best for the party. His view is that we should vocalise that by showing support for Starmer, whereas I think we all deserve better than an uninspiring functionary who isn’t as capable and competent as advertised. But that’s where it starts to fall apart and it all gets terribly depressing.
Steve I said, “For Starmer to get criticised for accepting a ticket to an Arsenal match, or for taking a suit, this is neither here nor there.” But Andy said, “They came in against sleaze.” He thinks Starmer’s got to go, which I disagree with: it’s not a good look, chopping and changing your leaders all the time.
Sharing plate
Steve We now live in an age where politics and social discourse is so much more aggressive than it was. You’ve got the president of the US effing and blinding on TV. It’s so antagonistic. We’re all encouraged to take positions behind the ramparts and shoot down the opposition. And I don’t think Keir has gathered that.
Andy I don’t think anybody should be bullied. You draw a line in civil discourse. But if you’re putting yourself forward for the highest office in the country, you should be good. The problem is, Steve thinks we should hold current leaders to the same standards as Boris Johnson – but he never pretended to be anything other than a dishevelled charlatan.
For afters
Steve I think Exeter has one of the most polluted streets in England. Transport’s subsidised but car culture is so embedded, you’ve got to almost force people out of them. I’ve got to go three miles into town and it’s so easy to just jump in the car. The transport’s not there. What the country needs is little minibus-sized buses.
Andy I think Steve’s better at this than I am. He likes to cycle, he seems to consciously make an effort to be less dependent on his car, and I would love to be able to, but a lot of other things need to be true before that can be possible. Unless we’re going to make serious investment in public transport, it doesn’t seem practical.
Takeaway
Andy I would happily have another chat with Steve. Got his email address.
Steve Hope springs eternal. We ended on good terms, but fearful for the future.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Andy and Steve ate at The Botanist in Exeter
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