Closing summary
The unusual match-up between Gavin Newsom and Ron DeSantis has come to a close. Despite a substantive start addressing policy differences around taxes, the economy and the Covid-19 pandemic, the debate quickly devolved with the pair repeatedly talking over one another. Newsom had to contend with a moderator who offered leading questions centered on rightwing talking points.
The debate addressed everything from book bans to abortion to the Israel-Hamas war and homelessness.
Here are the highlights:
Newsom, who has repeatedly said he is not seeking his party’s nomination, said that he was at the debate to support the president and highlight the differences between Biden and and DeSantis, who he argued is determined to rollback abortion rights and LGBTQ+ rights.
DeSantis accused Newsom of running a “shadow campaign” for the presidency. Meanwhile, the California governor pointed to DeSantis’ lagging polls numbers – he is trailing Donald Trump by 41 points among Republican voters in Florida.
The pair also addressed Florida’s move to abandon people seeking asylum to California. Newsom described DeSantis as “using human beings as pawns”. In response, the Florida governor said California is a sanctuary state.
Newsom defended his state’s record on homelessness – more than 171,000 people experiencing homelessness live in California – and said the state has invested “unprecedented resources” to solve the crisis. Afterward, DeSantis criticized San Francisco and held up a map that he said showed where feces has been found in the city.
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DeSantis claimed that Biden is experiencing “cognitive decline”, claims echoed by moderator Sean Hannity. Conservative media has long fixated on claims that Biden is suffering from cognitive decline but this narrative has largely relied on outright deception.
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In the lead-up to his prime time debate with DeSantis, Newsom, 56, has been busy campaigning over the last few months. He has travelled to several red states, where he also paid for billboards and television advertisements. He has challenged not just DeSantis, but a number of Republican governors including Greg Abbott of Texas. He launched a “Campaign for Democracy’’ political action committee. He met with Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel and Xi Jinping in China.
But as his political star rises, his constituents are growing increasingly sceptical. The governor, who sailed through an election after thwarting a recall effort, has recently seen his approval rating sink to an all-time low. His vetoes of bills that would have expanded labour protections and rights alienated powerful unions. And his rejection of laws to outlaw caste discrimination, decriminalise psychedelics and consider gender affirmation in child custody cases has confused advocates who thought they could count on his support.
A poll by UC Berkeley’s institute of governmental studies, co-sponsored by the Los Angeles Times, found that 49% of registered voters in California disapproved of their governor. And 43% opposed him “taking on a more prominent role in national politics” via TV appearances and travel.
“He’s taking on a new persona,” said Mark DiCamillo, director of the Berkeley-IGS poll. “He’s now broadening his overall political profile, and not all Californians are on board with that. They’d rather stick to the job that he was elected to do.”
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The 'Great Red v Blue State Debate' has officially wrapped.
Despite pledges to continue for another 20 minutes, both Newsom and DeSantis have called it a night.
The event unfolded as expected with the pair clashing over the same topics they have been for months – immigration, education and Covid policy – and Newsom emphasizing that he is not running for president and was there in support of Joe Biden.
The governors threw barbs back and forth with DeSantis referring to Newsom as a “slick politician” lying to Americans and running a “shadow campaign” for the White House. Newsom, who described DeSantis as a bully intent on rolling back civil rights, said: “One thing that we have in common is neither of us will be the nominee for our party in 2024.”
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We’re nearing the scheduled end of the debate.
After 90 minutes filled with tense exchanges and non-stop talking over one another, the pair exchanged their kindest words of the night with DeSantis praising California’s natural beauty and Newsom offering his appreciation for the Florida governor and his military service.
“I also appreciate we do have fundamental differences about the fate and future of this country. And that’s why I’m going to be working so hard to get Joe Biden and Kamala Harris re-elected in 2024.”
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DeSantis holds up map he claims shows feces found in San Francisco
The debate has moved on to homelessness in America and long stretches of DeSantis and Newsom talking over one another in an almost indecipherable stream of references to LGBTQ+ policies and Disney.
More than 171,000 people experiencing homelessness live in California – 30% of the homeless population in the US. California is considered the most unaffordable state for housing, where minimum-wage earners would have to work nearly 90 hours a week to afford a one-bedroom apartment. But Newsom defended the state’s record, arguing California is investing “unprecedented resources” to address the crisis.
“We’ve gotten 68,000 people off the streets, close to 6,000 encampments, we’ve got off the streets. We’ve also invested in unprecedented resources in reforming our behavioral health system,” Newsom said. “Ron has literally the worst mental health system in America, forgive me, outside of Mississippi and Texas.”
In response, DeSantis criticized San Francisco, and held up a map that he claims showed where feces has been found in the city.
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While criticizing DeSantis’ policies around guns in Florida, Newsom specifically mentioned the 2018 school shooting in Parkland and told the governor to address gun violence in his “own backyard”. His remarks have drawn support from Fred Guttenberg, whose daughter was killed in Parkland.
Absolutely correct @GavinNewsom. My daughter was murdered in Parkland. When @GovRonDeSantis had his chance to address gun policy, he made the state more dangerous. Thank you Governor Newsom for mentioning my daughter Jaime and for calling out Governor DeSantis. https://t.co/PW6Slk7tVj
— Fred Guttenberg (@fred_guttenberg) December 1, 2023
In between claims that Biden is not fit for office, DeSantis has accused Newsom of running a “shadow campaign” for the presidency.
“[Biden] has no business running for president. And you know, Gavin Newsom agrees with that. He won’t say that. That’s why he’s running a shadow campaign,” DeSantis said.
Newsom has repeatedly said that he is not running for office and supports Biden’s re-election, but his rising national profile – and tonight’s debate – has fueled speculation about his presidential ambitions.
“I will take Joe Biden at 100 versus Ron DeSantis any day of the week at any age,” Newsom said in response while again reiterating his support for Biden.
Sean Hannity: "Is Joe Biden experiencing cognitive decline?”
Moderator Sean Hannity started the debate insisting he would be fair – while acknowledging he is a well-known conservative – but many of his questions have been leading and centered on rightwing talking points.
“I am noticing some congnitive decline. Is Joe Biden experiencing cognitive decline?” Hannity said at one point.
Conservative media has long fixated on claims that Biden is suffering from cognitive decline but much of this narrative has relied on outright deception.
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Now on to parental rights in schools and book bans. DeSantis has pulled out a censored print-out that he says depicts “pornographic” images that he claims are in books carried in California schools. Newsom countered by arguing DeSantis of on a book-banning binge.
Last year school districts in Florida removed about 300 books from libraries in 2022. Among them were LGBTQ+ memoirs, including All Boys Aren’t Blue and Toni Morrison’s Beloved, the winner of the Pulitzer prize.
“What’s wrong with Toni Morrison’s books?” Newsom said.
Newsom also suggested poet Amanda Gorman’s poetry was banned in Florida schools. Politifact has pointed out that Newsom’s statement wasn’t entirely accurate.
Newsom said writer Amanda Gorman’s work was banned under DeSantis leadership. That's not totally accurate.
— PolitiFact (@PolitiFact) December 1, 2023
After a review, a Miami-Dade school moved the book to the middle school section of the K-8 school’s library.https://t.co/jBA7VNDwH9
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Gun safety: DeSantis signed permitless carry bill into law
DeSantis accused Newsom of lying about claims that Florida made it easier for people with felony convictions to access guns. But DeSantis has loosened gun laws in the state, even those supported by most Floridians.
Earlier this year the Florida governor signed a permitless carry bill into law. State law previously required that those who wish to carry a concealed gun complete safety training and undergo a more detailed background check.
Gun safety groups have provided evidence suggesting the permitless carry law will contribute to an increase in violence.
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Newsom has called out DeSantis’ lagging poll numbers.
“You’re trying to find migrants to play political games to get some news attention so you can out-Trump Trump, and by the way, how’s that going for you, Ron? You’re down 41 points in your own home state.”
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Gavin Newsom: 'Using human beings, as pawns, I think is disqualifying ... '
Newsom has brought up the groups of people seeking asylum that Florida transported to California and Martha’s Vineyard.
“Lying to migrants, promising them jobs and housing, sending them to an island, Martha’s Vineyard and then sending them to a parking lot in Sacramento, California. I met with those migrants that you lied to under false pretense, that kind of gamesmanship, using human beings, as pawns, I think is disqualifying,” Newsom said.
In return DeSantis said “California is a sanctuary state. They thumbed their nose at federal immigration law and this has real consequences.”
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Ron DeSantis immediately mentioned school closures and Covid restrictions in his opening remarks. The governor is known for eschewing public health advice during the pandemic, and helped empower groups like Moms for Liberty, a rightwing group that grew out of backlash to school closures and not leads the pack in book bans and anti-trans advocacy.
Unlike the recent Republican presidential debates, which have been mired in petty retorts and culture war tactics, tonight’s matchup has so far focused on fundamental differences around tax strategies, the economy and pandemic policies.
But the exchanges have been tense with the two frequently talking over one another, prompting Hannity to ask the governors to let the “debate breathe”. “I don’t want to be a hall monitor. It’s not my style,” the Fox host said.
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Newsom and DeSantis debate: tense exchange about California’s population decline
The state’s population has fallen by more than 500,000 in recent years. Recent census data has shown that about 29,000 people moved from California last year, while almost 51,000 people moved from California to Florida.
DeSantis claimed that Newsom’s own father-in-law has moved from California to Florida and pointed to Florida’s low crime rates.
For his part Newsom argued DeSantis’s statements were factually untrue and highlighted the state’s achievements in technology and research. “I think it’s an interesting campaign strategy for Ron DeSantis to be bashing the state of 40m Americans, when California simply has no peers.”
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The debate is now under way and Newsom has addressed the question likely on the minds of many Americans: what are the governors doing on the debate stage?
“I’m here to tell the truth about the Biden-Harris record and also compare and contrast. Ron DeSantis, his record and the Republican party’s record as a point of contrast, that’s as different as daylight and darkness,” he said, arguing “DeSantis wants to rollback voting rights, civil rights, LGBTQ+ rights and women’s rights.”
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The debate is scheduled to kick off in just a few minutes with the governors taking the stage at 9pm ET. It will be broadcast on the Fox News channel as well as Fox News radio and will be streamed on the Fox News website.
The debate comes as DeSantis, once considered a strong contender for the White House, has fallen far behind Donald Trump even in his own state.
The Florida governor is trailing Trump by 39 points (60-21) among Republican voters in the Sunshine state, according to a study by the University of North Florida (UNF) released earlier this month. DeSantis’s popularity has also plunged nationally.
“Despite historically high approval in the polls, Governor DeSantis losing steam in his home state doesn’t bode well for his national campaign,” Michael Binder, a professor of political science at UNF and director of its public opinion research lab, told the Guardian.
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Why are Newsom and DeSantis debating?
The unorthodox debate between Newsom, a Biden surrogate who insists he isn’t running for president, and DeSantis, a hard-right candidate competing against Donald Trump, follows a longstanding rivalry.
The governors have frequently clashed on everything from the Covid responses in their respective states to education and immigration and … hair gel. Earlier this year Newsom seemingly threatened DeSantis with kidnapping charges after Florida abandoned groups of people seeking asylum in California.
Newsom first challenged DeSantis to a debate in 2022 and the Florida governor accepted this summer as polls showed him far behind Trump in the Republican primaries.
Hey @GovRonDeSantis, clearly you're struggling, distracted, and busy playing politics with people’s lives. Since you have only one overriding need -- attention --let's take this up & debate. I’ll bring my hair gel. You bring your hairspray. Name the time before Election Day. @CNN https://t.co/vTJHQxfArW
— Gavin Newsom (@GavinNewsom) September 16, 2022
The event will give Newsom the opportunity to boost Biden’s policies ahead of the election while elevating his own profile nationally. A DeSantis advisor told Politico that the debate is a “great chance to showcase why the governor is the best candidate to beat the Democrats in November regardless of who they put up.”
“There’s a lot at stake here, and there’s a lot at stake because these two also potentially match up in 2028,” David McCuan, a political science professor at Sonoma State University, told CBS Sacramento.
Read more on this evening’s debate here.
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California and Florida governors to face each other on the debate stage
Good evening Guardian readers. Tonight we’ll be following the debate between California’s governor, Gavin Newsom, and Ron DeSantis, the Republican presidential candidate and Florida governor.
The pair will take the stage in Alpharetta, Georgia, shortly for a debate moderated by Sean Hannity.
The match-up is unusual given that only DeSantis is actively seeking the Oval Office. With Joe Biden running for another term, Newsom is not seeking his party’s nomination. Instead the event has been marketed as the Great Red v Blue State Debate. It’s expected to boost Newsom’s profile as a likely 2028 contender and give needed attention to DeSantis who is lagging in the polls.
Fox News has said the event will examine the governors’ “vastly different approaches” and offer insights into their political philosophies and “ambitions for the nation”.
The 90-minute debate is scheduled to start at 9pm ET.
