In 1997, Canada took the lead by forming a coalition to ban anti-personnel landmines, which led to the Ottawa Treaty, a major turning point in international diplomacy and human rights defence. What was the challenge? Bring all stakeholders together within a year. In this episode, we explore Canada’s role in global demining efforts, with NEDEX experts. We meet with Seydou Gaye, who talks about the reality of mine clearance in high-risk areas. Then, Paddy Torsney, from the Canadian Landmine Foundation, explains how the Treaty led the way for international cooperation and long-lasting changes.
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ARIANE LI – Today, we are focusing on the Ottawa Treaty. It is one of Canada’s biggest contributions to international peace and security. It was a turning point in our history and in international efforts against anti-personnel mines.
In a lot of regions around the globe, these hidden weapons are still making victims decades after the end of conflicts. Canada led international efforts aiming to ban anti-personnel mines, culminating in the signing of the Ottawa Treaty in 1997.
Welcome to Voyages dans l’histoire canadienne, a podcast that unpacks key milestones in our country’s history. This podcast receives funding from the Government of Canada and is created by The Walrus Lab. I’m Angela Misri.
In this episode, we will explore Canada’s pivotal role in the adoption of the Ottawa Treaty and the ongoing efforts to clear landmines around the world.
The Ottawa Treaty or the Anti-Personnel Landmines Convention is a diplomatic success that demonstrates Canada’s will to eradicate the use, production, and stockpiling of these deadly weapons.
In the treaty, “anti-personnel mine” means a mine designed to be exploded by the presence, proximity or contact of a person and that will incapacitate, injure or kill one or more persons.
Since the signing of the treaty in 1997, Canada has continued to support efforts in demining the whole world.
SEYDOU – Oh yes, not one person, but a lot of them. I know a lot of people who were unfortunately killed or injured by mines, and that is really sad. Can you imagine what it is like to lose loved ones, only because they were doing everyday work…
ARIANE LI – Here is Seydou Gaye, a NEDEX expert: The neutralization, removal, and destruction of explosives.
SEYDOU – They were going to see friends, they were playing, they were doing things that were not supposed to put them in danger or harm or kill them or to cause lifelong disability. In my case, that motivates me personally to engage in the battle against these deadly weapons.
ARIANE LI – He helps mine clearers to defuse mines safely and also raises awareness among communities living in areas where landmines may still be present.
SEYDOU – There are still a lot of mines injuring people that would normally have nothing to do with the conflict. Unfortunately, in African countries, there is still a challenge to the removal of these munitions because, in fact, there are no financial resources. We can still find mines in certain countries; there are not enough resources, I mean financial resources, even if they have technical resources…
ARIANE LI – In Canada, it is unlikely that you come across a mine while walking in a field or a forest. But in a country like Senegal, Seydou’s origin country, the situation is quite different.
In Senegal today, injuries and deaths are still caused by mines laid in the 1980s and 1990s during the civil conflict in Casamance. Even the regions authorities consider secure can still hide mines under their land.
Mine clearers like Seydou work hard every day to locate, neutralize and to get rid of landmines. Although advanced tools and techniques are being developed at the moment, the more common demining method is manual detection.
SEYDOU – So there is the bomb-disposal expert that uses a metal detector, and this detector is a little bit like the eyes for what mines below the surface, and the mines that are underground, those that do damage locally or anti-tank mines in the field. So the idea is to have a tool that helps locate the mine beneath the ground.
ARIANE LI – Mines can be concealed anywhere, even close to common living areas, such as agricultural lands or schools, in order to prevent access by inhabitants.
SEYDOU – The other is that we can use a system that is exclusively manual. So, we don’t have to use a detector. So, surveying and excavation. Also, we use this type of technique in a specific zone, where we are faced with undetectable mines. So, these mines do not contain metal components. In this case, we use only the technique of manual detection.
ARIANE LI – Imagine that you are walking in a nice village full of life. Groups of children are laughing and playing. Families and communities are going together to work, to school or to the church. But beneath the surface, a danger awaits them – mines are patiently waiting in silence. You only need one step for everything to fall apart.
SEYDOU – We can also use excavation machines to extract mines from the ground. In both cases – whether using animal detection or demining machines- human personnel are always needed to recover any munitions that are found, as well as to retrieve the detectors.
ARIANE LI – Demining teams move cautiously across the terrain, stepping carefully and scanning the ground with their metal detectors. This is one of the techniques they employ, often in combination with the assistance of trained dogs -or even rats-to detect various types of mines that may be hidden beneath the surface.
SEYDOU – It is essential to remain calm when working or intervening in demining operations. Demining requires your full attention, as well as a calm and serious approach.
ARIANE LI – The detection and neutralization of a mine demand your full attention. Mines come in various shapes and sizes, as Seydou explains. Some are triggered by chemical reactions, while others are made of wood to evade detection. Each type requires a slightly different approach to ensure it is neutralized safely.
SEYDOU – Depending on how the mines are found in the field and to minimize the risk of accidents, on-site destruction will be the preferred option, especially if the munition cannot be moved or defused. Safety is always the top priority, and in such cases, the team will ask themselves two key questions: Can we defuse it? Or should we destroy it on-site? The person in charge must be trained in handling this type of ammunition and its specific triggering mechanisms.
ARIANE LI – Each detonation not only signifies the destruction of a mine, but also brings us one step closer to restoring security in the community -a crucial step toward achieving lasting peace.
Despite the ongoing challenges and dangers, the determination of mine clearers like Seydou is truly admirable. Every day, they work tirelessly to create a safer environment for their local communities.
The moving stories of mine clearers such as Seydou not only highlight the immediate threats posed by landmines, but also reflect Canada’s broader commitment to addressing this issue on the international stage.
But how did Canada succeed in bringing so many countries together around this cause? How did it happen?
To shed light on this issue, we are joined by Paddy Torsney, Vice-President of the Board of Directors of the Canadian Landmine Foundation and a United Nations observer. An expert at the forefront of anti-landmine efforts, she explains how the Ottawa Treaty emerged from a challenge issued by the Canadian Minister of Foreign Affairs. At the time, the problem of anti-personnel mines was a central concern, and, under pressure from civil society, Mr. Axworthy challenged governments to sign an international treaty banning anti-personnel mines within one year.
Paddy, thanks for joining us. Can you explain to us why the Ottawa treaty was an historic moment?
PADDY – A great deal of effort was required to secure ratification, and this is crucial because while you can sign agreements at the UN or in other forums, they mean nothing without ratification. In this case, we had the support of the Canadian Parliament, as well as several smaller countries—because it wasn’t the Russians, Americans, or other major powers. It was the medium-sized nations that played a key role.
We worked tirelessly and urged deputies from other countries, saying, “Ratify it! Join Canada, Europe, and all the others!” Within six months, we secured the ratification. The countries that didn’t sign, like the United States, contributed significant funding to clear old mines and prevent the future planting of new ones. They also committed to stopping the export of mines. It was a positive step in the right direction, along with increased efforts to educate people living in affected areas.
ARIANE LI – We can see that there was a massive mobilization, with strong support from civil society, NGOs, and a variety of actors, all of whom contributed to this significant progress. From a humanitarian point of view, the impact has been substantial, as, if I understand correctly, no new mines have been discovered in the field since then.
PADDY – One of the key things people from different countries said was, “Do something.” The deputies then fought for a cause bigger than what any single country could achieve on its own. The dialogue between civil society, politicians, and lawmakers was a tremendous collective effort. In the end, we found something truly positive.
ARIANE LI – Action was taken swiftly, collectively, and on an impressive scale. The unity behind this ambitious goal is truly remarkable to witness.
PADDY – Yes, both small and large organizations have been working together for many years, and their efforts were recognized with a Nobel Prize.
ARIANE LI – More than 160 countries have ratified the treaty, which was opened for signature in 1997 and came into force in 1999. However, countries such as the United States, Russia, China, and India have yet to ratify it. What happened after the treaty was signed?
PADDY – At the time, there was a lot of work done with deputies from medium-power countries to engage their governments. While governments may sign agreements, they don’t always follow through. Deputies can hold them accountable by asking, “What have you done? What is happening with us and our country?” They also work closely with soldiers who are often directly affected by mines used against them. There was an incredible amount of work done in a very short time. However, Canada has been one of the country’s leading efforts to encourage others to take caution, to support mine clearance operations, and to raise awareness about the issue.
ARIANE LI – The Canadian Landmine Foundation plays a central role in raising awareness and spearheading numerous initiatives around the world. Can you tell us more about its efforts?
PADDY – Yes, Cambodia is heavily affected by landmines, but the country has set an ambitious goal to be mine-free by 2025.
ARIANE LI – Wow !
PADDY – There is still much work to be done. While it only takes a few minutes and minimal effort to plant a mine, the cost of clearing them is enormous, as every mine must be located and removed. It’s impossible to say, “Yes, we’ve found 98% or 99% of the mines.” All of them must be found because even a small number left behind still pose a risk to people, especially farmers.
ARIANE-LI – Yes, it is extremely dangerous. Demining is a massive undertaking that requires meticulous attention to detail and specialized equipment. Is demining an expensive operation?
PADDY – I don’t think it’s as simple as that; it’s about the people involved and the time required. We need to proceed carefully. There are human resources to consider, as well as trained dogs. Accidents do happen, and that’s a serious concern. One important distinction to note is that the purpose of this mine is not only to kill, but to injure people.
ARIANE LI – Paddy explains that on the battlefield, when a soldier is killed, it’s a tragic loss. But when a soldier is injured, it forces at least four or five others to stop fighting in order to assist him.
PADDY – Small children often encounter landmines, sometimes while playing with small vehicles or other objects that seem interesting to them. This is a form of terrorism affecting ordinary people. As a result, communities are forced to remain in their small villages, unable to safely visit the countryside.
ARIANE LI – Yes, mines are extremely dangerous. Today, 160 countries have ratified the treaty, but some, including the United States, Russia, China, and India, have not signed it. Are they still using anti-personnel mines?
PADDY – There is no legitimate business in mines or their export. I can say that the United States used anti-personnel mines and landmines in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other countries. But today, such practices are no longer acceptable.
ARIANE LI – So, now they are illegal.
PADDY – There are others -the ones who encounter the mines. There are still those who continue to use anti-personnel mines, and this remains extremely dangerous. In countries like Colombia and others heavily affected by mines, we must focus on finding solutions and improving our efforts to address the problem.
ARIANE LI – Today, we celebrate the 25th anniversary of the treaty. What is your vision for the next 25 years in terms of advancing this mission?
PADDY – I believe we must celebrate the success of those who work with governments and parliaments, but also continue to raise awareness about the ongoing problem. The work is far from over. For many people, the issue persists. Maintaining peace after war is challenging, as conflicts often remain within a country, between individuals or communities. Civil wars,
maintaining peace is key to the success of a country. It requires locating and removing the mines that remain, as war should never be waged with mines. However, even after the conflict ends, all mines must be found and cleared to ensure lasting peace and build a better future. People in Canada and around the world cannot simply say, “It’s over” and move on to other causes. We must remain vigilant and cautious.
ARIANE LI – You are absolutely right. We must not lose sight of this issue, despite other priorities, because the work is far from over if I understand correctly.
PADDY – Yes, there are anti-personnel mines in Ukraine, and also in Syria. It’s truly tragic. And as you know, landmines have been a problem in Egypt since World War II. It was a big mistake that humanity made at the time, but the consequences are still very real today.
ARIANE LI – There are regions where access is severely restricted and the threat to human life is constant, not to mention the danger posed to the animals living on the land.
PADDY – Yes, and securing the funding to carry out the demining efforts in the area.
ARIANE LI – Thank you. Is there anything you would like to add?
PADDY – I believe this treaty serves as a strong example for people in countries who want to collaborate with deputies and with the European Union, working together for a greater cause. It shows what can be achieved when we unite for the good of the world. This is a positive outcome not only for Canadians, but also for countries like Ireland, Belgium, Austria, South Africa, and a few others. It took a lot of courage from Mr. Axworthy and others to make this happen.
ARIANE LI – So really, they got together rapidly.
PADDY – Yes!
ARIANE LI – When there is a shared intention and vision, when the will to unite people is present, I’m reminded of the phrase “higher purpose” that captures the essence of this noble mission. When that intention brings people together, we can accomplish things faster than we ever imagined possible. It is a powerful source of inspiration, and it continues to inspire us today.
PADDY – Yes, people from the Department of Defense, Foreign Affairs, and many other sectors working together—both within the government and across civil society. When we collaborate and engage in open dialogue, we can achieve great things.
ARIANE LI – Thank you for your dedicated work on initiatives like this, not only for Canadians but for the well-being of people around the world. Your efforts have saved countless lives and continue to save thousands more. Congratulations on your ongoing commitment, and thank you for being with us, Paddy Torsney
PADDY – Thanks a lot! Bye, bye !
ARIANE LI – Thanks for listening to Voyages dans l’histoire canadienne. This podcast receives funding from the Government of Canada and is created by the Walrus Lab.
Like for all of our episodes, the transcripts are available in English and in French. To read the transcripts and more stories about historic Canadian milesones, visit thewalrus.ca/CanadianHeritage.
This episode was produced by Jasmine Rach. Nathara Imenes is the sound designer. Amanda Cupido is the executive producer.
