Ben Carroll doesn’t believe government officials knew about alleged Big Build corruption – but he does think Daniel Andrews’ dealings with a powerful union have eroded public trust in government.
Sitting at a suburban cafe for a wide-ranging interview with Guardian Australia, the new Victorian premier says he’s open to decriminalising cannabis. He reaffirms his commitment to the state’s treaty with First Nations people and argues that preventing crime is as important as punishing it.
Carroll has been described in the past fortnight as a centrist, a moderate and by Bill Shorten as “Kmart Keating” – a nod to his years working at the retail chain and his interest in economic policy.
“If people want to know who I am politically … I’m evidence-based, not ideological,” he says.
Yet in his first two weeks as premier, he’s also regularly talked about integrity in government and the trail of controversies that dogged his two immediate predecessors, Jacinta Allan and Andrews.
He has moved quickly to distance himself from both – announcing a royal commission into the construction industry, promising stronger powers for Victoria’s anti-corruption watchdog and overhauling the cabinet, including scrapping dedicated infrastructure portfolios.
He’s also been left to respond to the release of the Independent Broad-based Anti-corruption Commission’s long-awaited report into the Andrews government’s dealings with the United Firefighters Union.
While the report stopped short of making any findings of corrupt conduct, it found that members of the Andrews government engaged in “serious and concerning” conduct when negotiating firefighter pay deals with the UFU’s Peter Marshall. This included an “undisclosed” 2016 deal struck over champagne in a Melbourne hotel room without the knowledge of the minister responsible, Jane Garrett.
Asked whether the affair erodes trust in government, Carroll says: “It does.”
“What occurred was not cabinet government and it was a failure of cabinet government,” he says.
“I find it very hard to stomach an EBA stitched up in a hotel room behind a minister’s back – that is what grates with me the most.”
Carroll describes the report as “vindication” for Garrett, whom he considered a friend before her death in 2022. She resigned as emergency services minister rather than support the agreement at the time.
Carroll has put integrity front and centre of his new regime, and says he hopes to publicly announce the terms of reference for the royal commission into the construction industry next week. It will examine major contractors, subcontractors, unions – and the government – after allegations of corruption on the $100bn Big Build program, which is estimated to have cost taxpayers up to $15bn.
But while careful not to prejudge its findings, Carroll says he does not think government officials knew about the alleged corruption as it unfolded.
“I don’t believe that,” he says.
Yet, as he seeks to continue the multi-billion dollar program even amid a looming royal commission, Carroll says reforms introduced under Allan have already improved oversight of construction sites, and has heard they “are better places than what they were”.
He is adamant that building a train line to Melbourne’s airport is his top infrastructure priority.
“Airport rail has been around for 100 years. The public get it. They understand it. I think with the Suburban Rail Loop, it did not have a gestational period,” he says, referring to a project that he flagged for potential review just weeks before tunnelling is due to begin.
“I do believe we need to make sure that the public fully understand it.”
Labor right returns
Carroll is the first leader from Labor’s right faction to lead the state since John Brumby lost the 2010 election. But he rejects the idea that his elevation marks an ideological shift.
“I see myself as someone who is financially responsible, socially progressive. My track record shows that I’m socially progressive,” he says.
That extends to the government’s treaty with First Nations Victorians. Carroll says he’s a “very strong supporter” of Australia’s first formal treaty with First Nations people.
“This is giving our First Nations people their respected place in our story, and recognising their ability to succeed,” he says. “I’m very proud of treaty and my predecessor should be too.”
Both the Coalition and One Nation have committed to scrapping treaty, a prospect he says is “unfathomable” before it’s even been given “a chance” to succeed.
Carroll speaks to Guardian Australian near his home in Melbourne’s north, where a steady stream of constituents approach the new premier to congratulate him as he sits at a cafe.
Two women overhear as the conversation turns to cannabis.
“Maybe you should give it a try,” one says.
Carroll laughs. He says he has never used cannabis.
“I have been with people that have smoked it, but I just didn’t,” he says.
Several Victorian parliamentary inquiries have recommended following the ACT in decriminalising the possession and cultivation of small amounts of cannabis for personal use.
While Carroll says he’s open to discussion on removing criminal penalties, which have been found to disproportionately affect First Nations people, young people and lower-income Victorians, he does not support full legalisation.
“I’m open to a discussion on decriminalisation. I have been around places that have made it legal, though, and I have thought it has a real impact on the amenity of those areas and I don’t want that to happen in our state,” he says.
But he stresses he has “higher priorities” when it comes to social reform.
Among them is tackling the root causes of crime. Victoria’s crime rate has begun to drop, but this has followed tougher bail laws and uplifting serious youth offences to adult courts.
Carroll supports the laws. But he says – having visited the Harlem Children’s Zone in New York and Scotland’s Violence Reduction Unit, which is now being replicated in Victoria – the “silver bullet” is investing in education and after-school and weekend programs for young people, as well as providing them with stable housing and jobs.
He says this work needs to be concentrated in disadvantaged parts of the state.
“It’s not rocket science.”
On Thursday, Carroll spent an hour with traders at Sunshine mall after the death of Van Viet Truong, a grocery store owner who died in hospital after he was allegedly attacked when he rushed to the aid of a fellow retail worker trying to stop a group of teenagers stealing clothes.
“We say we represent the working-class people, so let’s represent them,” he says of the visit.
He left with a commitment to work with the local government to improve environmental design in the mall to reduce antisocial behaviour, and has already spoken to the chief commissioner of police about increasing visibility.
While he says Victoria has “led the way on the transition to renewable energy”, he wants to do “more on the environment”, including protecting and creating more parks and improving tree canopy in the western suburbs. He also maintains that Victoria’s first offshore wind industry auction will go ahead as planned.
“I know how important it is to our state’s future and I’m committed to it.”
