Ava White's alleged killer says he "didn't mean to" stab the schoolgirl and was "trying to get her away from me".
Boy A, 14, denies the murder and manslaughter of 12-year-old Ava in Liverpool city centre. Today he told a jury he thought she was a boy, who might be armed, and feared she was going to "batter" him.
The teen, from South Liverpool, cannot be named for legal reasons. He was cross-examined by prosecutors at Liverpool Crown Court this afternoon about the stabbing, on November 25 last year.
READ MORE: Ava White teen 'thought she was a boy who was about to jump him'
Boy A said he picked up a flick knife, which he'd had for "quite a bit of time", from his friend Boy B's house earlier that day. He said he normally kept the blade there, or in his back garden.
He said they went to his friend Boy C's flat, where he asked another friend, Boy D, "do you want to see this knife?" and Boy D was "messing around with it". The four youths then went into the city centre for a "walk".
Charlotte Newell, QC, prosecuting said: "Why did you take a knife into town?" Boy A replied: "Because I thought I was big."
Boy A said he and Boy C filmed Ava lying on the ground when they came across her group in Richmond Street. He accepted lying to police when he said he didn't film her because "I was scared they were going to know it was me and I was going to jail".
The teen denied laughing at Ava, but said Boy C had. He said he thought Ava and two girls with her were boys because of how they looked, "wearing boys clothes" and caps. He denied hearing anyone suggest Ava was a girl.
Boy A said he heard one of two older boys - Boy F - threaten to stab Boy C, who deleted his video. Boy A accepted telling police he saw a knife, when he hadn't.
He said that was a "mistake", because he saw Boy F with his hand down his waistband and Boy C told him he had a "big knife". He denied hearing Boy C tell Boy F "none of us carry knives".
Boy A said more than once Ava said "shall we just jump him now, cos I feel like it". He said he deleted the video he'd taken, before showing Ava his phone.
The court heard the two older boys walked away. Ms Newell said: "Were you pleased that the boys with the masks and the knife had gone?" Boy A replied: "Kind of in a way, but not kind of, because we were still being followed."
Boy A said Ava and her group kept saying "delete the video". He denied laughing when Ava fell to the ground in Church Street, before she and her friends "followed" him across the road.
He denied his group were shouting "look at the state of youse". Boy A said he felt "frightened" when "fronted" by Ava and flicked his knife open with his thumb in School Lane.
Boy A accepted neither Ava, nor any of the girls with her, showed him a knife, or said they had one. He agreed he didn't try to hit Ava, or tell her he had a knife, before getting his blade out.
The jury heard police later asked Boy A if he acted in self-defence. He answered "no comment".
Ms Newell said: "Why didn't you tell the police that it was done in self-defence, if it was done in self-defence?" He said: "I don't really know to be honest, I wasn't in the right frame of mind, I just can't remember."
Boy A said he didn't feel the knife go into Ava's neck and didn't know he had stabbed her, before he ran off while being "chased". He denied smiling after the stabbing, hearing Ava scream, or hearing other people screaming she had been stabbed.
The teen denied wiping the blade or the handle before ditching his knife. He said Boy B told him to throw it away and when he heard sirens, he thought police were looking for him over what had happened in town.
Ms Newell said: "What did you think the police were looking for you for?" He replied: "It was probably because I stabbed someone, but I didn't mean to, I promise you."
He said he left his coat in his nan's back garden because someone might identify him from it. Boy A said he then went to Boy C's flat to "chill" - not to hide from police.
Boy A said they stopped at a shop to buy butter for crumpets. Ms Newell said: "Were you going to eat those buttered crumpets at Boy C's house?" "Yep," Boy A replied.
He agreed he took a "selfie" with Boy B in the shop. He said he was in "an alright mood at that time, because I didn't really know what had happened".
Boy A said his mum rang him and put a policeman on the phone, who asked him to come home to talk about a "serious" incident. He said the officer didn't say what it was.
Boy A said he text his mum to ask her and she told him someone had been stabbed. He said he felt "scared", adding: "I thought 'oh no', I've done something bad'."
The teen said they were playing Call of Duty and he sent his mum a photo of Boy C's TV to suggest he had been there and not in town. He said he then tried to arrange staying with a different friend, because he wanted to avoid the police, but when that friend didn't respond "I just thought 'What's the point? I will go home because I didn't mean it'."
Asked why he told police "a lot of lies", he said: "My head was just everywhere". Boy A agreed he only accepted he had been in town because police had CCTV footage proving it.
Ms Newell said: "If all you were doing was defending yourself and it was an accident, why didn't you just tell the police that?" Boy A said: "Because I was 14... I didn't know the difference between stuff and I was just scared to be honest."
Ms Newell put to Boy A that he stabbed Ava "on purpose". She said: "Is that right or wrong?"
Boy A replied: "I never, it's wrong, I promise you." He said: "I was trying to get her away from me and I was frightened."
In re-examination, Nick Johnson, QC, defending, asked what he meant by "didn't know the difference between stuff".
Boy A said: "I didn't know the difference between manslaughter, murder and like, I knew kind of what self-defence was, but..."
(Proceeding)
