LANSING, Mich. — Two Republican officials from Michigan who signed a certificate falsely claiming Donald Trump won the state's presidential election avoided answering questions from U.S. House investigators by invoking protections in the Fifth Amendment more than 100 times.
The amendment safeguards people from being compelled to serve as witnesses against themselves in criminal cases.
Kathy Berden of Snover and Mayra Rodriguez of Grosse Pointe Farms declined to tell officials with the U.S. House's Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol who asked them to gather at Michigan GOP headquarters on Dec. 14, 2020, according to interview transcripts released this week.
During the Dec. 14, 2020, GOP meeting in Lansing, 16 Republicans signed a certificate falsely claiming to be the state's presidential electors. The certificate was submitted to the U.S. Senate and the National Archives as part of an apparent attempt to cast the state's electoral votes for Trump and to challenge Democrat Joe Biden's victory.
Asked by U.S. House investigators if she were a Republican elector in the 2020 presidential election, Berden responded, "On the advice of counsel, I assert my constitutional privilege under the Fifth Amendment and respectfully decline to answer that question."
Berden, Michigan's Republican national committeewoman, referenced the Fifth Amendment 81 times during her March 11 interview. Rodriguez, a lawyer by trade, mentioned it 27 times during her interview on Feb. 22, according to the transcripts.
Biden won Michigan by 154,000 votes, and the Democratic electors met in the state Capitol on Dec. 14, 2020, for the true electors' ceremony. The U.S. House's select committee is releasing its final findings this week on Trump's efforts to maintain power despite his loss to Biden, including the creation of false slates of presidential electors in seven states.
For months, the U.S. Department of Justice has also been probing the false electors' actions. Some of the electors in Michigan received subpoenas as part of the department's investigation over the summer.
Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel referred the electors matter to federal investigators in January. Nessel, a Democrat, has previously said the GOP electors might have broken state laws against forgery of a public record and election-related forgery.
Berden and Rodriguez were subpoenaed by the U.S. House committee in late January. They were selected because Berden was listed on a document as the chairwoman for the Michigan electors meeting and Rodriguez was listed as the secretary.
Their interviews with U.S. House committee — transcripts were released Wednesday — provided little new information about the Trump electors' gathering in Lansing.
Rodriguez said participants were told not to bring their phones into the GOP building. However, she said, a photo of the group was taken. That photo is yet to surface publicly.
Someone with the U.S. House committee said they understood Meshawn Maddock, co-chairwoman of the Michigan Republican Party and one of the GOP electors, "took pictures," according to the transcript.
"Do you recall that picture?" the official asked Rodriguez.
"Yes, I recall having a group picture taken," she responded.
But Rodriguez and Berden both generally refused to answer questions about the certificate they signed on Dec. 14, 2020.
Investigators asked Rodriguez if she had received an official document from the state designating her an elector.
"At this time, I'd like to invoke my Fifth Amendment right to remain silent," she replied.
"And is that because you think your answers might tend to incriminate you in a proceeding, a later criminal proceeding?" the official with the committee then asked.
"I just take the Fifth. Thank you," Rodriguez said.
The Detroit News has previously reported that a group of ardent Trump supporters and lawyers tied to the former president's campaign had led the push to submit the false electors slate in Michigan.
One lawyer, Kenneth Chesebro, updated Trump's advisers on plans to submit the false certificate claiming the then-president won Michigan's election and sent documents to help with the effort to a state GOP official, according to emails previously obtained by The News.
Asked if she ever discussed the electors plan with Chesebro, Berden invoked the Fifth Amendment in the interview with the U.S. House committee.
Rodriguez said there were people associated with the Trump campaign present at the Dec. 14, 2020, gathering in Lansing. She put the number of Trump-associated people there at "more than 1, less than 20," according to the transcript.
Both Berden and Rodriquez have declined to return requests for comment from The News.
In January, asked why the group submitted its certificate, Berden said, "I can’t comment on anything like that. That was a long time ago."
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